Decisions, Decisions

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by raysachs

I owned an X20, I've only read about the Sable. But, from what I can gather, the Sable has a mellower, "woodier" tone than the X20. Again, i can't comment on the Sable, but I did find the X20 kind of sharp and "zingy" for lack of a better term. That's far from a universal opinion of the X20, and there may be a difference in guitars as well as obvious differences in what we hear and prefer individually. I found the new X7 to be a warmer sounding guitar than the X20 and every clip I've heard suggests the X30 is too, See people love the X20, but I wouldn't describe the X20 as warm based on my experience with it. The Sable sounds like it would lean further in that direction.

The X20 seems to project more volume - I don't know how much of that is real and how much is perceived by the player based on the bi-directional soundhole that shoots a lot of sound right up at the player, vs the Sable's front facing soundhole. And the X20 has wider string spacing then the Sable, so if you're a finger picker, you may have a preference there.

There is no "better" or worse with these guitars, just what each of us would probably prefer. I suspect I'd prefer a sable for strumming and flat picking and the X20 for fingerpicking. But my preference have nothing to do with your's.

If you have a preference for string spacing, take that into account. If you don't I think all you can do is listen to as many clips from each of them as you can and see if one hits you more at a gut level as being the sound you're looking for. If so, go that way. If not, I think you're down to a coin flip.

-Ray

Good points all around. String spacing is an interesting issue. When you say that the X20 has a wider string spacing, is that at both nut and bridge, or just the bridge?

The Sable is the same in this respect as what Taylor does: 1 3/4" nut and 2 3/16" saddle. The Cargo has a 1 3/4" nut and a 2 1/4" saddle spacing, and it does feel wider than the McPherson.

Now to the interesting (to me) part. Before I got my Sable, I got a Taylor K14ce Builder's Edition new last October. I have always preferred a wider string spacing for fingerstyle, but like this particular guitar enough to try adjusting to it. I also have a Huss & Dalton 00 12 fret that has a custom neck with a 1 7/8" nut and 2 5/16" saddle string spacing.

There was a thread discussing string spacing right around that time in the main section of the forum. One poster said that if you attend carefully to your fretting hand technique, the typical (these days) 1 3/4" nut with 2 3/16" saddle spacing ought to be plenty. I decided to try focusing on my technique, especially being self-taught rather than guided and watched by a teacher.

Sure enough, with just a bit of such attention, I became quite comfortable with my Taylor for fingerpicking. Further, going back to my Huss & Dalton, it felt too wide to be comfortable anymore.

So I suppose what I am saying is that we can adjust to some extent to differences in guitar dimensions. I am not sure I could be comfortable with a 1 11/16" nut, but then these were intended for flatpickers, where minimal distance between strings is desirable. I have read posts around here of folks who do just fine with that width and fingerpicking, so maybe I could adjust even to that if I had to.

As for sound, "sharp and zingy" would definitely not be a Sable. However, I have read here that carbon fiber guitars seem to be very sensitive to the strings used, so maybe some experimenting on either the X20 or Sable would yield some middle ground.

Tough choices...

Tony

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by Earl49

What I can say about my X20 is that a buddy and I did a side by side shootout with a custom shop Martin OM-28 in his living room last year. In every way, the Emerald beat that Martin that cost twice as much - tone, loudness, playabilty, and intonation. It wasn't even close, and was even obvious to the non-playing spouses. In fact, he called me up last week to ask about the availability of mine. Not until my custom X20 comes in.....

Looks like you will be another good reference when you receive it. There was another guy who reported here last year (I think) who had an older X20 and bought a newer X20 but ended up returning the new one. Apparently Emerald changed the soundboard or the construction of the X20 at some point, though I cannot personally say. My X20 doesn't sound anything like the ones on Youtube. Not the best reference I know but that's all I have. Looking forward to hearing from someone else who has an older and newer X20 to see how different they are tonally. The folks on here who have the older ones certainly praise them which is why I took a chance and bought one but ended up being let down.

My X20 and Sable have roughly the same volume and projection, I mentioned that in my NGD thread. My wife (who doesn't have a very good ear for music) thinks the Sable is a little louder. From the player perspective it's hard to tell due to Emerald's up and out soundhole. Either way they would be close enough to not have to ponder over it. The Sable has a much warmer and woodier tone, even warmer than the X30. The X30 is course louder than the Sable and is hard to describe tonally. It produces a warm tone overall, but it's more piano like and very pleasing to the ears. I love my Sable and I love my X30 but my X20 would be on the top of my list of current guitars to sell if I ever did. I know some of you won't like those words but I would rather be honest about it. We all have different preferences so there's that too.

[Tøf]

It’s all subjective of course, and I don’t want to contradict Earl49, but I had a different experience.
I recorded my X20 and a Martin OM-28 reimagined, and while the X20 sounded louder and flattering when I played it, the Martin was actually louder and more pleasing to my ears when I checked the files. My wife had the same comment when she listened to both guitars. The soundport on the Emerald is definitely a great feature for the player.

The Sable is the very first composite guitar that I consider on par or even in some respects better than my finest wooden guitar. Again, very subjective, just my opinion.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Tøf

It’s all subjective of course, and I don’t want to contradict Earl49, but I had a different experience.
I recorded my X20 and a Martin OM-28 reimagined, and while the X20 sounded louder and flattering when I played it, the Martin was actually louder and more pleasing to my ears when I checked the files. My wife had the same comment when she listened to both guitars. The soundport on the Emerald is definitely a great feature for the player.

The Sable is the very first composite guitar that I consider on par or even in some respects better than my finest wooden guitar. Again, very subjective, just my opinion.

I like your opinion.

Tony

[kramster]

Tuff call...wonder what I would do in a situation like this...Hmmmmm???

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by kramster

Tuff call...wonder what I would do in a situation like this...Hmmmmm???

Buy them all? Seems reasonable to me.

The trick is to convince the undecided folks to buy all the choices and then watch the classified section of the forum for the inevitable unloading of the unwanted choices.

Tony

[DavidE]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

And, from another point of view: I have 3 Emeralds. I have played both McPherson carbon fiber models - they are very nice guitars. I still have the 3 Emeralds.

Comparing the X20 only to the Sable only, why do you prefer the X20?

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by Tøf

The Sable is the very first composite guitar that I consider on par or even in some respects better than my finest wooden guitar. Again, very subjective, just my opinion.

True, it's very subjective but i agree with you. The way they brace the Sable to get that tone out of it is pretty impressive.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

True, it's very subjective but i agree with you. The way they brace the Sable to get that tone out of it is pretty impressive.

That is exactly what CA Guitars did with their guitars to get that tone too. There are so many similarities between the Cargo and the Touring that it is not just some cliche when I say that the Touring is what the Cargo could have been, had it been given a chance to fully mature as a product.

Tony

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

That is exactly what CA Guitars did with their guitars to get that tone too. There are so many similarities between the Cargo and the Touring that it is not just some cliche when I say that the Touring is what the Cargo could have been, had it been given a chance to fully mature as a product.

Tony

Have you looked at both to see if they're the same or similar? I had a good look in the Sable with a mirror when I was installing the HFN. I might take a pic and post it for everyone to see. It really is unique. I'm definitely on board with the whole bracing of carbon fiber guitars. We know it's not needed for strength but hey if they can make em sound like that consider me a fan.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Have you looked at both to see if they're the same or similar? I had a good look in the Sable with a mirror when I was installing the HFN. I might take a pic and post it for everyone to see. It really is unique. I'm definitely on board with the whole bracing of carbon fiber guitars. We know it's not needed for strength but hey if they can make em sound like that consider me a fan.

I have not looked inside my Sable, but on the Cargo, the "braces" are not separate pieces as in a wood guitar. Instead, they are formed with the top. I don't have the type of mirror needed to look inside my guitars. When I bought it at The Podium, they showed it to me.

Tony

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Have you looked at both to see if they're the same or similar? I had a good look in the Sable with a mirror when I was installing the HFN. I might take a pic and post it for everyone to see. It really is unique. I'm definitely on board with the whole bracing of carbon fiber guitars. We know it's not needed for strength but hey if they can make em sound like that consider me a fan.

Why would you care whether it’s ‘braced’ or not?

Why not just trust your ears to determine if it’s a guitar you prefer, instead of trying to ascribe reasons as to why?

We’ll be into ‘carbon weave’ nonsense, akin to ‘tonewood’ nonsense before long.

Although, I guess that will mean that CF has hit the mainstream if we get to that level

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by eatswodo

Why would you care whether it’s ‘braced’ or not?

Why not just trust your ears to determine if it’s a guitar you prefer, instead of trying to ascribe reasons as to why?

We’ll be into ‘carbon weave’ nonsense, akin to ‘tonewood’ nonsense before long.

Although, I guess that will mean that CF has hit the mainstream if we get to that level

In the case of the Cargo, and I assume the McPherson, the bracing was how they "tuned" the sound of the guitar to specifically what the maker wanted to hear. Structurally, it is not needed, just like any other carbon fiber guitar. It is just a technical discussion and yes, the honeycomb top DOES sound just like Englemann spruce. Honest!

Tony

[Captain Jim]

Originally Posted by DavidE

Comparing the X20 only to the Sable only, why do you prefer the X20?

Hi David. At the time, I compared my X7 with the Touring, the X20 with the Sable. Both of the McPhersons were nice guitars. I preferred the sound of each of the Emeralds over the McPhersons. In each case, the Emeralds were louder and crisper (opinion). The Touring felt cramped compared to the 24" scale of the X7. The neck on the Sable and the X20 felt pretty similar. The body of the X20 was more comfortable to hold and play. The sound directed to the player was richer and louder with the X20. Seemed the same to me when in front of the guitar, as well.

Tone is particularly subjective. When I played the Sable, I thought it sounded dark, more like my Taylor 522ce 12-fret (all mahogany) compared to the X20 sounding more like my 814ce. I prefer the tone of the X20.

All that said, the Sable is a fine guitar. I would put it in the top 10 of acoustic guitars that I've played. For me, the X20 has the tone I prefer, and the best ergonomics. It just suits me better.

[jonfields45]

Seems the people in the know split relatively evenly.

Then the no-brainer decision is go with a Sable which will be sold to you by a dealer and easily returned if you live in the same country as the dealer.

All new guitars can have problems and unless you live in Ireland, or have a preference for the Emerald, why take the risk?