Fretboard radius

[brianlcox]

I received my new (to me) Froggy Bottom K a couple days ago and have been playing the snot out of it. I love the tone - it's seriously awesome.

When buying without playing first I was actually most worried about the string spacing - as I have found that I prefer slightly wider than 1 3/4" and 2 3/16". It turns out that the string spacing works out quite well. Although the nut width is 1 3/4", I measure the string spacing to be a bit over 1.5", and string spacing seems to work just fine on both hands.

What has been bugging me a bit (I think) is the fingerboard radius. It is quite flat (20") compared to most. I'm finding is sometimes hard to get the middle strings pressed down on some barre chords - eg, on E shape minor 7th chords I sometimes struggle to get the G strings ringing cleanly. It's like I'm learning barre chords all over again.

I'm sure I will get used to it after a while, but it had me wondering- Why the flatter fingerboard? Is there any advantage to this on an acoustic guitar? I know all about fretting out on an electric, but is that really the issue here, or is there something I'm missing?

[ChalkLitIScream]

If you own a Froggy, then I'm sure you know to set up the guitar to ease playability, right? I wont get into that.

I'm not sure about how handmade Froggys are, but Theres also the possibility that if they used premade saddles and nuts, that they use saddles and nuts made for 16'' FB radii, for example. This makes the outside strings correct to play, but the inner strings will be higher than optimal because of the wrong FB radius. Is that a possibility?

[BT55]

I own a few CF guitars that have about 20* radius fretboards. Initially I found them “different” to play but I became used to them and now I don’t even feel the difference. All of my guitars have been setup for my playing preferences. A good setup may “solve” your problem.

[brianlcox]

Originally Posted by ChalkLitIScream

If you own a Froggy, then I'm sure you know to set up the guitar to ease playability, right? I wont get into that.

I'm not sure about how handmade Froggys are, but Theres also the possibility that if they used premade saddles and nuts, that they use saddles and nuts made for 16'' FB radii, for example. This makes the outside strings correct to play, but the inner strings will be higher than optimal because of the wrong FB radius. Is that a possibility?

Yes, I meant to mention that in my original post - the guitar is set up very well. String action is very low at the nut and saddle: about 5/64" on the bass going smoothly down to 4/64" on the high e at the 12th fret- The middle strings aren't too high. I did have this on the 2007 Baranik I just bought though - the fingerboard radius seems to be around 16", but the width is a bit wider than normal at the saddle - 2 5/16". The high and low e strings were too low and the middle strings were too high - I think someone swapped out the saddle from a guitar with narrower string spacing during the gutiar's life!

[Frosted Gladd]

I'm having a similar experience to you. I've been exclusively an electric player and my index finger is used to baring on a 9.5" radius. I seem to naturally curve my index finger and shifting over to the 12" on the acoustic this is causing muting on the G string. It does feel a bit like starting out all over again.

[Social Exodus]

Originally Posted by brianlcox

I received my new (to me) Froggy Bottom K a couple days ago and have been playing the snot out of it. I love the tone - it's seriously awesome.

When buying without playing first I was actually most worried about the string spacing - as I have found that I prefer slightly wider than 1 3/4" and 2 3/16". It turns out that the string spacing works out quite well. Although the nut width is 1 3/4", I measure the string spacing to be a bit over 1.5", and string spacing seems to work just fine on both hands.

What has been bugging me a bit (I think) is the fingerboard radius. It is quite flat (20") compared to most. I'm finding is sometimes hard to get the middle strings pressed down on some barre chords - eg, on E shape minor 7th chords I sometimes struggle to get the G strings ringing cleanly. It's like I'm learning barre chords all over again.

I'm sure I will get used to it after a while, but it had me wondering- Why the flatter fingerboard? Is there any advantage to this on an acoustic guitar? I know all about fretting out on an electric, but is that really the issue here, or is there something I'm missing?

We live in a strange time when we can buy over the Internet, having only seen video and images of a guitar -- but not playing it first. If you think about that, the buying process is all about visual appeal and other people's opinions rather than you putting it on your lap and giving it a spin. It is the best of times. It is the worst of times.

Bigger radii on fretboards are better for playing leads on an electric, so maybe that was their thinking?

[lar]

What is the reason more curvature makes barring easier? I've often wondered about this. Can a curved finger apply more pressure/force than a straight finger (due to human anatomy)?

My classical guitar has a flat fretboard (typical of these guitars) and barring is easy, but then string tension is low.

[BrunoBlack]

I have steel string guitars with radii from 14” through 20”, some with a 14" - 26" compound radius. I don’t notice any difference playing barre chords. I find Froggy Bottoms to be easy to play. But, this goes to show why it’s important to play a particular guitar or at least be very familiar with how a brand plays before buying.

[Rosewood99]

Aren't flatter radius guitars supposed to to be easier to do bends and more curved ones easier to barre (In general, I know it depends on the builder)?

[lfarhadi]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

Aren't flatter radius guitars supposed to to be easier to do bends and more curved ones easier to barre (In general, I know it depends on the builder)?

Correct. (Ceteris Paribus etc).
I agree that barres are somewhat harder to play on the Froggy than some other instruments (like most Martins, which are a 16” radius).

[Frosted Gladd]

Originally Posted by lar

What is the reason more curvature makes barring easier? I've often wondered about this. Can a curved finger apply more pressure/force than a straight finger (due to human anatomy)?

My classical guitar has a flat fretboard (typical of these guitars) and barring is easy, but then string tension is low.

My fingers naturally curve. Even if held “straight” there’s a slight curve between the two joints on my index finger, which is why I benefit from a lower radius to “bump up” the D and G strings that fall between the two joints on a barre chord

[brianlcox]

Originally Posted by Haasome

I find Froggy Bottoms to be easy to play. But, this goes to show why it’s important to play a particular guitar or at least be very familiar with how a brand plays before buying.

It's rare to find a used froggy where I live, and the only dealer in Europe that sells them is about 1500km away. THIS was my try before you buy. I found a good deal, at a price that I knew I could get back again if I decided to sell. I decided to "rent" a froggy for a few months and see what all the hype was about. If I don't like it, I'm sure I can sell it again without much loss and try something else.

Anyway, I'm not sure I would have really noticed this in the store. I'm also not sure if it would have been a deal breaker.

I was mostly wondering why they set the fingerboard radius to 20". It seems like it's pretty far to one end of the spectrum for a standard spec, no? What fingerboard radius do most vintage martins have?

[BrunoBlack]

Originally Posted by brianlcox

It's rare to find a used froggy where I live, and the only dealer in Europe that sells them is about 1500km away. THIS was my try before you buy. I found a good deal, at a price that I knew I could get back again if I decided to sell. I decided to "rent" a froggy for a few months and see what all the hype was about. If I don't like it, I'm sure I can sell it again without much loss and try something else.

Anyway, I'm not sure I would have really noticed this in the store. I'm also not sure if it would have been a deal breaker.

I was mostly wondering why they set the fingerboard radius to 20". It seems like it's pretty far to one end of the spectrum for a standard spec, no? What fingerboard radius do most vintage martins have?

I totally understand and have taken a chance on promising guitars myself. I was just stating the obvious.

I’ve asked Michael about his thinking on why he uses a 20” radius. He said that he thinks the 20” radius seemed to be most comfortable to the broadest range of players. Over the years FB tested this idea without telling people the actual radius on the guitars they presented. When he asked people what they liked, they seemed to be all over the map without any way to honestly support the number they chose. He thinks 20” works as a standard and as with everything, you can order a different radius if you know what you want.

[BrunoBlack]

One thing that’s interesting is to drive a nail into a board, then tie a length of string to the nail. Wrap the string around a sharp pencil at 14” from the nail and draw the radius, the width of the fretboard, onto the board. Repeat this step at 20” from the nail. When you compare the arcs that were drawn, it’s surprising how similar they really are. I understand people feel necks differently, but still an interesting exercise. I suspect people like what they are familiar with.

[Dryfly]

Originally Posted by Haasome

One thing that’s interesting is to drive a nail into a board, then tie a length of string to the nail. Wrap the string around a sharp pencil at 14” from the nail and draw the radius, the width of the fretboard, onto the board. Repeat this step at 20” from the nail. When you compare the arcs that were drawn, it’s surprising how similar they really are. I understand people feel necks differently, but still an interesting exercise. I suspect people like what they are familiar with.

Is there an illustration out there somewhere that shows this?