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  #31  
Old 06-07-2017, 09:34 AM
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Tommy CanAm
 
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Ted, your experience with most of the CF offerings gives you unique insight into the issue of weight that I mention above. You and I are both fans of CA, so I'm curious about if you think CAs are generally heavier than other brands. I'm not trying to suggest that if they are, they are inferior. It's just that some brands are so light which can be seen as an attribute, whereas my own limited experience is that CAs are a little on the heavy side (I don't mean unbalanced).
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  #32  
Old 06-07-2017, 10:45 AM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Hi Tom,

Yes, CA's are built a little heavier, but weight doesn't seem to be much of a consideration for the thousands of players I've dealt with over the years. In fact, some of the heaviest high end acoustics out there are guitars made by McPherson, and Goodall, yet they are also some of the most sought after by experienced players.

Weight could be a consideration in situations like having to lug your guitar along with other luggage through an airport, but in my experience, bulk can play a bigger role here than weight.
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  #33  
Old 06-07-2017, 11:29 AM
rmsstrider rmsstrider is offline
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I received My first CF guitar a little over a month ago, a CA Hi Gloss Legacy. My first impression was, wow this is heavy. My next impression was , wow this sounds great and very much like a wood guitar. My next impression was, this is a very comfortable guitar to hold and play. I couldn't believe the vibrations I was feeling against my chest. The carbon burst and abalone rosette is a nice style. Over all very pleased. I recently brought to an open mic and played about 7 songs. The host was really impressed with the sound plugged in and the comfort of holding and playing. I saw him copying down the label info. May be one in his future. My one observation would be that i would like to see it offered without the barn door electronics and instead be able to install a K&K pure mini or other soundboard transducer. Not sure if that would work or if the underside is smooth enough for good contact.
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  #34  
Old 06-07-2017, 12:32 PM
Strumalot Strumalot is offline
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The CA is on the heavy side for a CF, but I only notice the weight of my GX if I pick it up after playing my X10 or NP12. Otherwise it's about the same weight as my Strat.

And I actually like the "heft." It feels substantial, plays substantial, and sounds substantial. And good defense if someone in the audience throws something at you.

In contrast, I kinda worry about the thin top on the RainSong even though I know it's CF strong.
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  #35  
Old 06-07-2017, 01:48 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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A RainSong top is two layers of pre impregnated CF fabric and a lightweight spacer. That spacer is deleted around the edge of the sound board (for flexibility and tone -- like a Taylor relief route) and at the soundhole (to allow the two layers to mate directly). Under the bridge is a bridge plate like hard rectangular spacer in place of the lightweight spacer. The sides of a RainSong are a single layer of prepreg CF. The back is constructed essentially similar to the top. The neck and end pin areas of the sides have a second layer of CF and a hard spacer. All of this makes for minimal weight. The Hybrid models use fiberglass for the layer of the back you see from the soundhole. Presumably the Standard models use CF for the hard buildups (neck, end pin, bridge plate) and the Hybrid models use fiberglass. The neck appears to be epoxy with likely some sort of filler (light particles to reduce weight) injected into a mold surrounded by unimpregnated CF fabric. If you put a flashlight up to the side of your RainSong and look at that spot from the soundhole, the single layer becomes clear and there will be little points of light where there is a gap in the weave.

A CA guitar appears to be made with an unimpregnated CF fabric buildup (CF-spacer-CF) with the epoxy added during construction. The top appears to be a thinner CF buildup (CF-spacer-CF) with braces compared to RainSong's unbraced thicker top. The neck is an extension of the back and side mold and is likely filled with epoxy cut with a filler. This is a very different approach and uses a lot more epoxy to get the job done. It is heavier.

Neither construction technique strikes me as better from a purely physical abuse standpoint. The tone difference seems pretty obvious (at least to this veteran guitarist). Neither guitar will resist a puncture from a sharp piece of metal (so they are not indestructible).
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  #36  
Old 06-08-2017, 08:16 AM
ronadair ronadair is offline
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My thin body Xi gets as much play time as any of my other guitars. The wine red color really accents it's sexy lines. It's soooo comfortable to play. I amplify most of the time & love the clear bell like tone. It's also my travel guitar.

Nice job CA!
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  #37  
Old 06-08-2017, 12:54 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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A quick check of Sweetwater's Gallery shows a CA Legacy at 5 lbs, and their current selection of Martin HD-28s at 4 lbs 10 oz, and 4 lbs 13 oz. It seems to me that CA is in the ball park compared to a similarly priced wooden guitar. For reference I just weighed my RainSong H-DR1100N2 and it is a fraction of an ounce heavier than 4 lbs (with a pickup and soundhole tuner installed).

Some random thoughts...

I like the look of CA's Carbon Burst with a bit of weave showing in the place of binding and purfling. The full in-your-face RainSong CF back and sides took some getting used to.

I found all the CA guitars just a bit quieter compared to the wooden competition 10 years ago when a North of Philadelphia high end guitar store (long ago closed) stocked them.

I really like CA's (and Emerald's) stainless frets. I think we are all initially drawn to CF guitars for their practicality and this seems like a no brainer.

CA's more curvaceous designs slide out my leg like an Ovation. When I owned them I put felt along the edge that rested on my leg.

RainSong hits a lower price point (in the case of the Hybrid all gloss) that appeals to me (I like the idea that my go to carry about guitar is not too precious and still has a nice glossy finish).

I keep wanting to like the Emerald X20 and the McPherson Sable but somehow the looks of both don't work for me. To my eye the CA models are really well styled.
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  #38  
Old 06-08-2017, 01:59 PM
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I think Blackbird also uses stainless steel frets.

Rainsong and Journey do not.

I prefer stainless, but it's certainly not a deal breaker for me with my less than aggressive playing style.
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  #39  
Old 06-08-2017, 05:11 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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FWIW, my 2001 Rainsong WS-1000 has been played a lot, and is not showing much fret wear even w/o stainless steel frets.

Given a choice, I would always go with stainless though for wear resistance. I believe that Emerald uses SS too.
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  #40  
Old 06-09-2017, 07:58 AM
CAPRODMGR CAPRODMGR is offline
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There's no doubt that CA's are a bit heavier than some of our CF competition. One reason is the above explanation of pre-preg vs. non. The other is the design of the guitar itself, the curves require some extra material, and there are braces for the top like a wood guitar, so the top can be extra thin. This all adds up to a guitar that really projects. Also, the ones made in Meridian are no doubt a slight bit heavier than the Lafayette made ones because part of our overall redesign was the addition of the CF reinforcement rod that goes from the neck joint all the way to the headstock. This really made the neck very, very rigid and totally eliminated any service issues with necks warping. Also, one thing a lot of people don't know is that we actually PLEK the fingerboard before the frets go in, so the CF composite fingerboard has a perfect surface before the frets even go in. Then, it's PLEK'd again after to dress the frets. By doing it this way, it barely does anything to the frets on the 2nd pass. I can say with confidence that the CA's produced right now are the best ones ever produced and the best is yet to come!
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  #41  
Old 06-09-2017, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAPRODMGR View Post
There's no doubt that CA's are a bit heavier than some of our CF competition. One reason is the above explanation of pre-preg vs. non. The other is the design of the guitar itself, the curves require some extra material, and there are braces for the top like a wood guitar, so the top can be extra thin. This all adds up to a guitar that really projects. Also, the ones made in Meridian are no doubt a slight bit heavier than the Lafayette made ones because part of our overall redesign was the addition of the CF reinforcement rod that goes from the neck joint all the way to the headstock. This really made the neck very, very rigid and totally eliminated any service issues with necks warping. Also, one thing a lot of people don't know is that we actually PLEK the fingerboard before the frets go in, so the CF composite fingerboard has a perfect surface before the frets even go in. Then, it's PLEK'd again after to dress the frets. By doing it this way, it barely does anything to the frets on the 2nd pass. I can say with confidence that the CA's produced right now are the best ones ever produced and the best is yet to come!
Thanks for the further insight, Michael. Much appreciated! It's so nice to learn first-hand about the latest with CA and what's to come in the future.
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  #42  
Old 06-09-2017, 08:34 AM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is online now
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Hi Ted at LA Sales, with all due respect, would you please explain your comment:

"but sadly you are part of a vey small group of players looking for a CF nylon."

Thank you!

Best regards,
Tom
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  #43  
Old 06-11-2017, 09:33 AM
rmsstrider rmsstrider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAPRODMGR View Post
There's no doubt that CA's are a bit heavier than some of our CF competition. One reason is the above explanation of pre-preg vs. non. The other is the design of the guitar itself, the curves require some extra material, and there are braces for the top like a wood guitar, so the top can be extra thin. This all adds up to a guitar that really projects. Also, the ones made in Meridian are no doubt a slight bit heavier than the Lafayette made ones because part of our overall redesign was the addition of the CF reinforcement rod that goes from the neck joint all the way to the headstock. This really made the neck very, very rigid and totally eliminated any service issues with necks warping. Also, one thing a lot of people don't know is that we actually PLEK the fingerboard before the frets go in, so the CF composite fingerboard has a perfect surface before the frets even go in. Then, it's PLEK'd again after to dress the frets. By doing it this way, it barely does anything to the frets on the 2nd pass. I can say with confidence that the CA's produced right now are the best ones ever produced and the best is yet to come!
Thanks for the detailed information. Initially I was a little concerned about not having a truss rod. I find the neck relief of my Legacy to be spot on. Now that I know there has been added a neck reinforced rod, I have more confidence that the neck will never move. And the PLEK system has made all the fret heights uniform eliminating any intonation problems. As far as weight, I noticed at first, It now seems perfectly normal.
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  #44  
Old 06-12-2017, 02:49 PM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceciltguitar View Post
Hi Ted at LA Sales, with all due respect, would you please explain your comment:

"but sadly you are part of a vey small group of players looking for a CF nylon."

Thank you!

Best regards,
Tom
Hi Tom,

I sell a lot of CF guitars, in fact I sell more per year than any other dealer on the planet, and I can tell you that of the hundreds of people who contact me each year to discuss non-wood guitars, only a handful ever ask about nylon string. So my comment is based on that experience.

So yes, Evan is part of a very small group of players interested in a nylon string CF guitar. Not as small as the group interested in a CF mandolin, but definitely smaller than the group interested in a CF uke, or a CF 12-string.

BTW, sorry for the slow response, I didn't notice your post till today.
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  #45  
Old 06-12-2017, 03:17 PM
EvanB EvanB is offline
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My statement about CA/Peavey being behind was reference to its lack of new lines beyond what was inherited from CA. I suppose not having a nylon string instrument could be construed as being left behind since every other maker does have a nylon string or two in its arsenal.

As Ted notes, however, the market for nylon strung guitars is probably pretty small.
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