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  #16  
Old 12-03-2009, 06:02 PM
66strummer 66strummer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD18JBGuy View Post
+2

Here is a video example of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKwas...ayer_embedded#

The only difference in my practice is I don't cut the strings until the guitar is tuned to pitch. I have cut a few round core strings early only to find that it deadened them once they were tuned.


Great thread and a great video! I think I'm going to change my restringing method . Well, all except for the nifty electric string winder.......
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  #17  
Old 12-03-2009, 06:44 PM
brokepick brokepick is offline
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Half to three quarters down from the first fret is how I gauge how much string to wind. Half the fret distance for the wound strings, and three quarters fret distance for the unwound ones.

Here is an alternative method of wrapping and winding the string I found some time ago. You may or may not like it.
http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/stringing.htm
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  #18  
Old 12-03-2009, 07:39 PM
Opa John Opa John is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofball Jones View Post
Next time I restring I'll try the Taylor method to test it out.
I do it the same way you do, Goofball.....and I never cut the string until it's tuned up to pitch. Been doin' like that for about 50 years, and I ain'tagonna change now!
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  #19  
Old 12-03-2009, 08:37 PM
thall thall is offline
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I use the Taylor method, and the Ernie Ball thing. Anyone gets gets the Ernie Ball thing should know I took mine apart (a bit tricky) and sprayed the gears with some WD-40. Batteries last a lot longer now that the grease is thinned out a bit. Alternately open it up just enough to see where the gearing is, re-assemble, then carefully drill a hole in the case, through which you can apply the WD-40.
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  #20  
Old 12-03-2009, 08:43 PM
iDanFL iDanFL is offline
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+4 for the Taylor way, I just used again tonight to put some new EXP's on my Taylor. Quick, easy and has not yet failed me. Oh and the Turtle Wax they use on their cleaning video, good stuff.
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  #21  
Old 12-03-2009, 08:56 PM
66strummer 66strummer is offline
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I too do not usually cut the strings til the guitar is tuned up to pitch, which may now change since I like that Taylor method. Important to note however that there are certain strings out there that require not cutting the strings til they are wrapped around the tuner posts, due to an outer coating on these strings. I've never used them but heard about this from a friend who accidentally ruined a set by cutting them ahead of time....
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  #22  
Old 12-03-2009, 09:02 PM
camera_obscura camera_obscura is offline
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so there seems to be a group of people who do not cut the left over string until everything is done. is this necessary on certain strings or all strings?
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  #23  
Old 12-03-2009, 09:04 PM
camera_obscura camera_obscura is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66strummer View Post
there are certain strings out there that require not cutting the strings til they are wrapped around the tuner posts, due to an outer coating on these strings.
so i'm guessing elixirs count as one of those strings that require not being cut until the end as they have outer coating?
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  #24  
Old 12-03-2009, 09:07 PM
HD18JBGuy HD18JBGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camera_obscura View Post
so there seems to be a group of people who do not cut the left over string until everything is done. is this necessary on certain strings or all strings?
I think it depends on the strings. I have never had a problem with hexcore strings (most strings), however, round core strings, such as DR Sunbeams or Martin FX string, have led to issues.

Ever since having a couple incidents, I stopped clipping before I wind them. Besides, I find it easier to work with the strings before clipping them.
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  #25  
Old 12-03-2009, 09:09 PM
66strummer 66strummer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camera_obscura View Post
so i'm guessing elixirs count as one of those strings that require not being cut until the end as they have outer coating?


I don't think Elixirs pose a problem. I honestly don't remember the strings my friend had but they weren't Elixir. The coating was stretched over them like an outer skin, rather than applied. Sorry.....I'm not good at explaining it.

Last edited by 66strummer; 12-03-2009 at 09:16 PM.
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  #26  
Old 12-03-2009, 09:39 PM
JTFoote JTFoote is offline
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I absolutely, vehemently disagree with the so-called Taylor Way. I've never seen it done like this, not by any other guitarist, or luthier, or laid-out in any instruction book.

First, I don't use wire cutters to pull bridge pins. That shouldn't be necessary, not unless you've pushed them down much too hard to get them level, or to keep a ball end from slipping out of the slot. If either of these things is happening, you need to see a luthier, cause the pins may not be the right size or taper, or could be worn. Get your bridge slotted - use non-slotted pins, and neither of these things will ever be an issue. And if you must use a tool to get the pins out, cover it with something, like a cloth, or a slip might do some scarring. Squeeze too hard, and the pin is headless.

I never, ever cut a string before wrapping it around a tuning post. That makes no sense to me. While it's much less likely to happen with hexagon core strings, if the winding slips on the core, the string will be dead. This is especially applicable to round core strings, which happens to be my choice. I don't "get" this, any more than seeing a player install a set of strings and not clip them afterwards. They might rattle and buzz, or get catch on something when you wipe down the instrument. Just because Dylan did it, doesn't mean that you can play like him if you leave them dangling. To me, it's silly, like wearing extra large pants down around your knees.

What I do - I bend the last half-inch of the ball end, and lock this on the bridge plate. I insert the bridge pins, hand-tight, no more.

I pull the string up through the tuning post ... straight, and not at a 45% angle. I need three wraps for each string, no more, no less. I allow for this amount (about 3/4 of an inch for each turn of the wrap), and lock the string. By this, I mean that if the tuner goes counter-clock-wise to tighten the string, I loop the excess string clock-wise, and under the string. And vice versa with the G, B, and E strings. Then I turn the post, keep the excess string taut, and lock the string with the first wrap. Once the string is up to pitch, I cut it, and bend the little bit that is left down against the post.

Locking the string in this manner will definitely minimize slippage.

I do very little stretching ... just barely enough for the string to hold pitch fairly well. Then I let the guitar sit for a while, so the strings can "settle in". Or in other words, let the cores stretch for a while while at pitch ... overnight, if possible.

The next day, it won't take much playing before a final tune will cause the strings to hold pitch with relatively minor adjustments thereafter.

I think Frank Ford's method, which is very similar to mine, is a far more viable and correct way of restringing a guitar. IMHO, the Taylor method needs to be tossed out a window, unless, of course, you like dead strings, strings that won't hold pitch, snapped bridge pins, and accidental dents in your top or bridge.

That .PDF makes me think that there still is work in the field of graphic arts for recreational drug users.

This is how it is done:

Restringing Clinic - Steel String Guitar


... JTR
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  #27  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:05 PM
gmm55 gmm55 is offline
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-1 for the Taylor way, and I own one (Taylor guitar) to boot. I see a few problems; a couple were already hinted at. Strings like Newtone, DR Sunbeams (and yet some others) are wound on round cores. This means the outer wraps can slide on the core if the string is installed the way Taylor recommends. If the core separates, buzzing or rattling within the string itself can occur. I think the amount of separation that could be problematic would be impossible to detect visually.

As for keeping round core strings from separating, DR Strings recommends taking the string up to pitch and then cutting excess, unlike the Taylor method. In addition, a secondary kink at the post (not found in the Taylor method) acts as another place to stop any potential core slipping. I take it one step further and leave an inch or so of excess, and fold it in half back on itself. The fold makes for an interesting look. This final part of mine is almost certainly not needed, but there is nothing wrong with redundancy in preventing string problems. They say taking the string up to pitch before cutting is not needed for hex core strings, but I see no harm in any extra caution here too, since the hex shape is actually a bit vague with un-sharp vertices under magnification.

My other complaint about the Taylor method is they recommend pliers to remove pins, and do not even mention that there are special tools to do this called bridge pin lifters. Why use a heavy steel pair of pliers with sharp edges (which would do irreparable harm to the top from even a short drop, and we all know accidents happen) not to mention the marks it will leave on the saddle over many string changes (if one has a saddle they are fussy about.)

Bridge pin lifters are usually made of lightweight wood (less damaging in a fall) and rounded metal coated with plastic to protect the saddle and bridge during levering, and are a very inexpensive investment to protect say a $2000Taylor. It is cuckoo to spend thousands on a guitar and quibble about a $6 bridge pin lifter that could save a catastrophe.

Frankly, the only interesting thing the Taylor method has going for it is establishing the length of excess string. This is no big deal, and can be done many ways. I happen to slide the string in the hole with the hole facing perpendicular to the fretboard, and lift the string away from the fretboard about half a hand at the 12th fret, which works out to about 4", and this roof shaped string geometry is good for the same number of wraps as the Taylor method.
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  #28  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:06 PM
gmm55 gmm55 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTFoote View Post
I absolutely, vehemently disagree with the so-called Taylor Way. I've never seen it done like this, not by any other guitarist, or luthier, or laid-out in any instruction book...


... JTR
Hmmm... Next time, I am going to refresh once in a while, while composing a long post
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  #29  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:39 PM
Goofball Jones Goofball Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTFoote View Post
I absolutely, vehemently disagree with the so-called Taylor Way. I've never seen it done like this, not by any other guitarist, or luthier, or laid-out in any instruction book.

First, I don't use wire cutters to pull bridge pins. That shouldn't be necessary, not unless you've pushed them down much too hard to get them level, or to keep a ball end from slipping out of the slot. If either of these things is happening, you need to see a luthier, cause the pins may not be the right size or taper, or could be worn. Get your bridge slotted - use non-slotted pins, and neither of these things will ever be an issue. And if you must use a tool to get the pins out, cover it with something, like a cloth, or a slip might do some scarring. Squeeze too hard, and the pin is headless.

I never, ever cut a string before wrapping it around a tuning post. That makes no sense to me. While it's much less likely to happen with hexagon core strings, if the winding slips on the core, the string will be dead. This is especially applicable to round core strings, which happens to be my choice. I don't "get" this, any more than seeing a player install a set of strings and not clip them afterwards. They might rattle and buzz, or get catch on something when you wipe down the instrument. Just because Dylan did it, doesn't mean that you can play like him if you leave them dangling. To me, it's silly, like wearing extra large pants down around your knees.

What I do - I bend the last half-inch of the ball end, and lock this on the bridge plate. I insert the bridge pins, hand-tight, no more.

I pull the string up through the tuning post ... straight, and not at a 45% angle. I need three wraps for each string, no more, no less. I allow for this amount (about 3/4 of an inch for each turn of the wrap), and lock the string. By this, I mean that if the tuner goes counter-clock-wise to tighten the string, I loop the excess string clock-wise, and under the string. And vice versa with the G, B, and E strings. Then I turn the post, keep the excess string taut, and lock the string with the first wrap. Once the string is up to pitch, I cut it, and bend the little bit that is left down against the post.

Locking the string in this manner will definitely minimize slippage.

I do very little stretching ... just barely enough for the string to hold pitch fairly well. Then I let the guitar sit for a while, so the strings can "settle in". Or in other words, let the cores stretch for a while while at pitch ... overnight, if possible.

The next day, it won't take much playing before a final tune will cause the strings to hold pitch with relatively minor adjustments thereafter.

I think Frank Ford's method, which is very similar to mine, is a far more viable and correct way of restringing a guitar. IMHO, the Taylor method needs to be tossed out a window, unless, of course, you like dead strings, strings that won't hold pitch, snapped bridge pins, and accidental dents in your top or bridge.
Hmmm...believe Taylor themselves or someone in a forum...hmmm...

But seriously, leaving your strings overnight? Tommy Emmanuel doesn't seem to have any problems. He changes his strings before every performance and stretches them out similar to the way that Taylor shows. Granted, he uses the string-lock method when changing them. (which I use also, but honestly I'm going to try out the Taylor method to see if I like it or not...and I see nothing wrong with it and not really warranting the militancy and vehemence you've expressed over the use of it).
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  #30  
Old 12-03-2009, 11:09 PM
gmm55 gmm55 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofball Jones View Post
Hmmm...believe Taylor themselves or someone in a forum...hmmm...
You mean you put more stock in a given technique merely because it is associated with a large guitar company, rather than actually thinking through the questions just raised by mere individuals? I have news. People work for Taylor. They look and sound a lot like other humans, and make mistakes too. So does NASA.

From the materials of engineering perspective, there is merit to the idea of leaving strings to settle overnight rather than stretching them in.

No one is going to argue that stretching in can and does work adequately.The question is, could the longer settling in time still benefit the string in some small way, likely from introducing stresses slowly, in a controlled fashion, thus ensuring that any strain is distributed equally along the entire length? The answer is yes.

Now if the Taylor method had some kind of actual merit, say for safety or obvious benefit for tone not realized in my post and the other one questioning the Taylor method, there might be reason for you to take umbrage with our counter, but then again, you do have the word goofball in your username, and that has to count for something

Last edited by gmm55; 12-03-2009 at 11:20 PM.
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