why acoustic guitar players cant read scores?

[Ed422]

Originally Posted by Paikon

i ve never see such a tab
please show me a tab like this if possible

Why, since you find tab so pedestrian?

Ed

[HHP]

Originally Posted by Paikon

i ve never see such a tab
please show me a tab like this if possible

I'll try an photograph a copy and post it. What timing marks or pauses in standard do you think cannot be designated in TAB?

[71jasper]

I think I've seen it, though. They separate measures and put flags on the numbers like one would put on notes to indicated time values. Very clever, I thought.

[HHP]

Here's a simple example. There are more detailed ones in the same collection that notate things like dotted rhythm strathspeys. Notation and tab have the same timing and rhythm indications.

http://www.melbay.com/samples.asp?Pr...q=&r=&s=&next=

[Paikon]

Originally Posted by HHP

I'll try an photograph a copy and post it. What timing marks or pauses in standard do you think cannot be designated in TAB?

ah ok, thats combined standard notation and tab
you lose a line you put the notes and you have standard notation
http://tp.ultimate-guitar.com/e/evan...ab_online.html

that works in my opinion

[mr. beaumont]

If you're going to call yourself a musician I think it's important to know both.

There's things that tab is great for...but it's a secret guitar language. Standard notation, despite being "piano centric," is a language all instruments can communicate in.

I know some people have gotten to a point in their playing where they say, this is it, this is what I do, this is what I need to know...that's cool...but it bugs me when I see young players (or heck, older newer players) set that kind of limitation on themself.

Yes, you can still learn new tricks. I'm forever grateful my teacher pushed me to learn, even though I was convinced i'd be playing hard rock music the rest of my life...

One last thing (as much as I feel strongly about the subject, I do think the op's being a little hard headed) tomorrow night, I will play a gig with four musicians I've never met. We will play 12 original songs I've never heard before. The leader of the group plays accordion...he sent me some hand written charts, and we'll be able to jump right in and make music tomorrow, no rehearsals, no waiting to learn the song, etc. I think that sounds like fun...if that doesn't sound like fun to you, then yes, i'd say you don't have much need to learn standard notation.

If it does sound like fun and you can't yet read...consider it. It's learnable...whether you're 12 or 65...

[frankhond]

Real detailed tabs like the ones published by Stropes show not only notes, finger positions and timing, but also how long to hold down a particular finger, what hand techniques to use etc.

Standard music notation is only one way to notate music. By itself it is useless for many styles, such as electroacoustic music, and contemporary fingerstyle guitar. You cannot accurately transcribe a Michael Hedges piece with standard notation only.

I think the original question is posed in a way that makes no sense.

To illustrate the point I'll paraphrase: Would you learn classical japanese shakuhachi notation to learn a classic shakuhachi piece or would you just rather not do it?

The answer of course is that if I really want to learn that music and that's the notation available, I will do whatever it takes.

The fact that many people are not interested in standard notation is that they don't need it for the particular musical situation they are in. Most of those people would probably reconsider once motivated by some new music that requires it. To play jazz professionally you most likely have to read music. To play folk and blues, probably not.

Personally, I know both tab and notation, but I don't read standard notation smoothly. The music I like NEEDS tab - Kottke, Hedges etc. Standard notation CANNOT accurately transcribe such music. Look at the tabs by Stropes and you will see what I mean.

So this is not a tav vs standard notation issue. Notation is only notation, and it needs to do the job, if it doesnt, it will be replaced by something else.

[Ed422]

Why is it that some people cannot understand there is a wide range of players, styles, expectations, and needs?

I want to think that what I do and how I do it is the "right" way... every time. But, I know it is really only right for me. I wish a lot of others would grow up and realize the same.

Ed

[jmcc]

many of us CAN read scores. Reportedly Paul McCartney/John Lennon could not. Many musicologists rank their songwriting as among the best in the 20th century.

I am certainly not going to rank myself above them just because I learned standard notation.

[Redpick]

I have to say that I have managed just fine with tabs so far - mainly folk and blues. I'm putting my effort and time into learning a second language which for me will be time well spent.
Having said that I remember going for a few lessons aged 14 and learned the basics of reading notation and playing guitar - it nearly put me off guitar for life!

[Potts]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

One last thing (as much as I feel strongly about the subject, I do think the op's being a little hard headed) tomorrow night, I will play a gig with four musicians I've never met. We will play 12 original songs I've never heard before. The leader of the group plays accordion...he sent me some hand written charts, and we'll be able to jump right in and make music tomorrow, no rehearsals, no waiting to learn the song, etc. I think that sounds like fun...if that doesn't sound like fun to you, then yes, i'd say you don't have much need to learn standard notation.

I get it and I understand your argument completely. I dont read music and I'd be a fool to say that I didn't care. But what I quoted doesn't impress me to the level you're looking for.

I sit in with people all the time, in many different genres, and create magic. I've had people sit in with me and do the same. No offense to anyone, but I DO think that sometimes properly trained musicians miss out a bit on the creative ends of things. Again...sometimes.

I feel like I'm in a secret club when I can drop in the studio or sit in and communicate effectively and play based on my experience and familiarity with my instrument and the genre I'm playing.

[ras1500]

I'm one of the odd ones here. I've only been playing somewhat less than 3 years and am a mediocre player at that. I do not have a good understanding of music theory; one of these days I keep telling myself I have to learn scales. However, I can sight read music and play along. As long as the music stays within a few lines of the treble clef and there aren't too many sixteenth notes I can handle it. However, as others have said, with the guitar a note can be played in multiple locations, so for me the musical notation with the tabs is very useful. The tabs tell me the where I should be on the neck and the notation provides the timing.

[Potts]

As far as tabs go? I've never ever used them once. I can honestly say if I couldn't learn it by ear as a kid then I wouldn't learn it. Now if I can't watch it and learn it on youtube I suck.

If I'm going to look at something musical on paper it's not going to be be fret numbers and fingers. I'd take the time to learn notation.

[him]

Maybe Paikon is frustrated because he (or she) can't read tab?

I can sympathize - I've always found tab a bit frustrating. Given the choice between tablature and European Music Notation I'll take the notation, and I'm not a particular master of European Music Notation.

Still, what's up with those music selections? I'm about as likely to play them on an acoustic guitar as I am to grill salmon on the hood of a Toyota Prius. Technically possible? Yes. With wholesome results? No, not so much.

[Tele1111]

The ability to read notation is a tool. One of many tools available for musicians. Tab is also a tool, as is music theory.

I think it's clear, for a multitude of reasons, that for guitarists the ability to read notation and even to learn theory carries a certain stigma: that it's difficult, and that it's not necessary to become proficient on the instrument. While the latter may be true, it certainly does not hurt to have as many tools available as possible. This issue seems to be most common for guitarists. You ever hear a horn player or violinist say they didn't need to be able to read music?

Although tab can and often does contain rhythmic duration, I've often wondered how those who cant read notation are able to incorporate that rhythmic sensibility into the piece. "1 e and a 2 e and a". And if you can do that, you're half way to learning to read notation already.

You certainly don't need to study grammar to be able to speak coherently or well. You don't need to be able to read music to play and communicate well either. For many, it's just not worth the investment of time for what their musical intentions and desires may be.

It's a tool. One that for guitarists seems to be debatable as to it's overall worth. It's really not that difficult. It just isn't.

Still I would never criticize anyone who does not believe it's necessary to learn. There are so many tools available that allow guitarists to recreate music without learning to read notation that it may not be necessary for them. I mean what did musicians do before there was "standard" notation? Probably hundreds of different forms of musical communication including tab and some precursors to notation. I'm sure the musicians of those days were no less proficient because of it.

As for me, I learned to read music early on in my journey, and that ability has made many other musical concepts and ideas easier to assimilate. To each his own.