The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 04-07-2019, 04:15 PM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 35,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
I do not know for certain but there certainly could be.



Yes something is wrong because that is definitely not what you would want to do , To clarify what people are talking about is connecting the line "Outputs" ( one the back of the 2i4) from the Scarlet to the "Inputs" on the speakers. (not the other way around ?)

I am not familiar with Logitech or any outboard computer speakers, especially 5.1 surround speaker connection configurations . which may be some of the issue.
If I upgrade to a decent set of monitors the info you guys gave is helpful. For now I'm not making any changes. Nothing I do is critical anyway, it's just for fun.
__________________
Barry

Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}:


My SoundCloud page

Some steel strings, some nylon.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-08-2019, 07:01 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: On the Mass/NH border
Posts: 6,663
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBman View Post
But..... With a pair of computer speakers like the Logitech 5.1 left and right desktop speakers - about 6" tall and 3 inches wide..... Is there going to really be an audible difference?

My speakers have 3 outputs 2i4 has 2 inputs. Something is wrong with this picture,
I'm confused with what you are using. "5.1" = 6 speakers (left front, left rear, center front, right front, right rear PLUS subwoofer).
Most computers don't have 6 outputs, or even 3 for use of a sub - the left and right would be channeled to the sub, which splits off the signals and the left and right speakers hook to it (?) Possibly even the rear speakers hook up to
it? (Unless of course you have a video computer set up with 6 channel audio)
Anyway when you reference 'room size' and other settings for this speaker system - its for use with surround sound movies, etc, not reproducing recorded music accurately.
I'm sure it works fine for your use, but hooking up speakers for reproducing recorded music accurately should not be done this way.
__________________
Mike

My music: https://mikebirchmusic.bandcamp.com

2020 Taylor 324ceBE
2017 Taylor 114ce-N
2012 Taylor 310ce
2011 Fender CD140SCE
Ibanez 12 string a/e
73(?) Epiphone 6830E 6 string

72 Fender Telecaster
Epiphone Dot Studio
Epiphone LP Jr
Chinese Strat clone

Kala baritone ukulele
Seagull 'Merlin'
Washburn Mandolin
Luna 'tatoo' a/e ukulele
antique banjolin
Squire J bass
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-08-2019, 10:44 AM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Belmont Shore, CA
Posts: 3,206
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Currie View Post
To be fair, audio quality in Windows these days is very high (at the OS level). Most of this is due to heavy lobbying and pressure back in the mid-late 90s from internal and external media professionals.

Yea I'll have to take your word for it Gordon I haven't any contact with a Windows machine since my Dididesign days. Still, and even so, this doesn't change the idea that it doesn't make a whole lotta sense to purchase an interface only to use the Windows sound card.

Horses for courses I suppose!
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-08-2019, 11:29 AM
rick-slo's Avatar
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 17,170
Default

Even motherboard chipset audio (let alone if using a soundcard) these days is very good. Many support up to 24bit at a 96000 rate
and may even have a digital out if you want to do DA conversion elsewhere. Even more so I would not worry about it in this case given that
the recording unit is a BEHRINGER audio interface UMC22.
__________________
Derek Coombs
Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs
Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs

"Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love
To be that we hold so dear
A voice from heavens above

Last edited by rick-slo; 04-08-2019 at 11:53 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-08-2019, 12:34 PM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 35,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBmusic View Post
I'm confused with what you are using. "5.1" = 6 speakers (left front, left rear, center front, right front, right rear PLUS subwoofer).
Most computers don't have 6 outputs, or even 3 for use of a sub - the left and right would be channeled to the sub, which splits off the signals and the left and right speakers hook to it (?) Possibly even the rear speakers hook up to
it? (Unless of course you have a video computer set up with 6 channel audio)
Anyway when you reference 'room size' and other settings for this speaker system - its for use with surround sound movies, etc, not reproducing recorded music accurately.
I'm sure it works fine for your use, but hooking up speakers for reproducing recorded music accurately should not be done this way.
I don't have all the components hooked up due to lack of room, but yes it's a 6 speaker setup with a three out wire. I'd rather get a decent pair of monitoring speakers and now I learned that I can just plug them into the Scarlett just as long as I set it as the output also. Thanks.
__________________
Barry

Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}:


My SoundCloud page

Some steel strings, some nylon.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-08-2019, 01:37 PM
Gordon Currie Gordon Currie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Kirkland, WA USA
Posts: 2,445
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Even motherboard chipset audio (let alone if using a soundcard) these days is very good. Many support up to 24bit at a 96000 rate
and may even have a digital out if you want to do DA conversion elsewhere. Even more so I would not worry about it in this case given that
the recording unit is a BEHRINGER audio interface UMC22.
That is a fair point, although 96K/24bit support doesn't tell anything about distortion and other non-linearity, noise etc.

I think the issue many have is that Barry has never once heard the audio flowing through the UMC22(?) interface. Maybe there is no difference to him, and that's fine. But no way to judge if you haven't tried it.
__________________
-Gordon

1978 Larrivee L-26 cutaway
1988 Larrivee L-28 cutaway
2006 Larrivee L03-R
2009 Larrivee LV03-R
2016 Irvin SJ cutaway
2020 Irvin SJ cutaway (build thread)
K+K, Dazzo, Schatten/ToneDexter


Notable Journey website
Facebook page

Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art. - Leonardo Da Vinci
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-08-2019, 02:41 PM
rick-slo's Avatar
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 17,170
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Currie View Post
That is a fair point, although 96K/24bit support doesn't tell anything about distortion and other non-linearity, noise etc.

I think the issue many have is that Barry has never once heard the audio flowing through the UMC22(?) interface. Maybe there is no difference to him, and that's fine. But no way to judge if you haven't tried it.
Most of the digital issues arise at the ADC stage. Not sure I would trust a unit such as a BEHRINGER audio interface UMC22 to do a better job of that than a computer soundcard. That said there is the DAC stage and with a good enough playback system if the computer supports a digital out their might be some audible advantage with the use of a good external DAC
__________________
Derek Coombs
Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs
Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs

"Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love
To be that we hold so dear
A voice from heavens above
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-08-2019, 08:12 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 6,951
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBman View Post
I don't have all the components hooked up due to lack of room, but yes it's a 6 speaker setup with a three out wire. I'd rather get a decent pair of monitoring speakers and now I learned that I can just plug them into the Scarlett just as long as I set it as the output also. Thanks.
Many seasoned studio cats say that the monitoring chain is the most important part of a recording system. The basis for this is if I can't accurately hear what I am recording all other decisions (e.g., mic choice, mic placement, processing, etc.) will be compromised. While that may be true when mixing dozens of tracks from many different sources, its a bit less important when only mixing a stereo track of a single source, like solo fingerstyle guitar. Still, the monitoring chain is quite important (i.e., clock, DA conversion, monitors, location and room treatment).

I agree with the others. Monitors are to be connected to the interface's line or monitor analog outputs, not the computer's audio analog outputs.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-08-2019, 09:24 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,960
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdelsolray View Post
Many seasoned studio cats say that the monitoring chain is the most important part of a recording system.
I'm not a "seasoned studio cat" but I've also come around to that way of thinking. So much so in fact, that my first big gear purchase when I relocate and have a bigger room will be a set of midfield monitors and a sub. Not sure which yet, but midfields are in my future.
__________________
Jim
2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

YouTube
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-08-2019, 11:47 PM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 9,878
Default

I'd compare trying to record without decent monitors to trying to paint a picture with your eyes closed... Even for solo guitar. You really have to be able to hear what is there. You might get lucky and get an acceptable sound, just like you might accidentally paint a masterpiece without looking. But it's not likely :-)
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 04-09-2019, 12:18 AM
rick-slo's Avatar
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 17,170
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
I'd compare trying to record without decent monitors to trying to paint a picture with your eyes closed... Even for solo guitar. You really have to be able to hear what is there. You might get lucky and get an acceptable sound, just like you might accidentally paint a masterpiece without looking. But it's not likely :-)
I prefer very good and detailed headphones at all stages myself.
__________________
Derek Coombs
Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs
Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs

"Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love
To be that we hold so dear
A voice from heavens above
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 04-09-2019, 12:33 AM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 9,878
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
I prefer very good and detailed headphones at all stages myself.

Can't stand headphones :-) but whatever allows you to hear!
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:46 AM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 35,829
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdelsolray View Post
Many seasoned studio cats say that the monitoring chain is the most important part of a recording system. The basis for this is if I can't accurately hear what I am recording all other decisions (e.g., mic choice, mic placement, processing, etc.) will be compromised. While that may be true when mixing dozens of tracks from many different sources, its a bit less important when only mixing a stereo track of a single source, like solo fingerstyle guitar. Still, the monitoring chain is quite important (i.e., clock, DA conversion, monitors, location and room treatment).

I agree with the others. Monitors are to be connected to the interface's line or monitor analog outputs, not the computer's audio analog outputs.
Ok, but I have computer speakers, not studio monitors. I doubt my speakers would sound better through my Scarlett. I should at least try it though this weekend.
__________________
Barry

Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}:


My SoundCloud page

Some steel strings, some nylon.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:13 AM
rick-slo's Avatar
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 17,170
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBman View Post
Ok, but I have computer speakers, not studio monitors. I doubt my speakers would sound better through my Scarlett. I should at least try it though this weekend.
Get yourself a set of Grado headphones. My favorite (in the affordable range anyway) are 225e.
__________________
Derek Coombs
Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs
Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs

"Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love
To be that we hold so dear
A voice from heavens above
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 04-09-2019, 06:51 PM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 35,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Get yourself a set of Grado headphones. My favorite (in the affordable range anyway) are 225e.
I'll take a look at them, thanks. What do you suggest for an affordable pair of monitors?
__________________
Barry

Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}:


My SoundCloud page

Some steel strings, some nylon.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Tags
interface gain, recording, sm57, windows input level

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=