James May Ultra Tonic/Tone Dexter Demo - Page 2

Petty1818 · #16 03-02-2018, 04:41 PM

I gave the pickup another listen on proper studio monitors and I am impressed. I typically find the K&K to be a bit muddy but the ultra tonic had nice clarity and a very mic-like tone. The Tonedexter really made it sound special but if it were me, I would use the blend and dial the wavemap back slightly. I found it got a bit hollow sounding but with a little less image, that guitar would sound fantastic.

AeroUSA · #17 03-02-2018, 08:27 PM

I thought that too and yet I find myself using mostly image focus 1. The Tone Dexter needs experimentation with blend and mic positions but the results can be incredible. I highly recommend this set up.

AeroUSA · #18 03-02-2018, 08:28 PM

Can an admin please correct the thread title to say James instead of Jame. Thanks!

Petty1818 · #19 03-03-2018, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

I thought that too and yet I find myself using mostly image focus 1. The Tone Dexter needs experimentation with blend and mic positions but the results can be incredible. I highly recommend this set up.

Was the installation difficult? I don't see a jig method at all but I can assume that the K&K jig would work well for at least installing the main three transducers.

AeroUSA · #20 03-03-2018, 01:16 PM

I didn’t do the install. I hope James will make a detailed installation video. It’s not as easy as a K&K.

Petty1818 · #21 03-03-2018, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

I didn’t do the install. I hope James will make a detailed installation video. It’s not as easy as a K&K.

Thanks. I am down to trying this, the K&K or the dazzo. I will be pairing it with the Tonedexter so I feel as though I don't really need the Dazzo but I like to do the installations myself.

SpruceTop · #22 03-03-2018, 07:33 PM

Tonewise, the ToneDexter is what makes its inclusion in the signal chain of parts of this demo sound the best. Although I hear the UltraTonic pickup system sounding good, I still hear piezo-like artifacts in the non-processed UltraTonic part of the demo video but the tone is clear from bass to treble and likely more feedback-resistant in live situations than a K&K system. I would definitemly consider the UltraTonic system if I was going to buy another pickup/preamp system.

SpruceTop · #23 03-03-2018, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Thanks. I am down to trying this, the K&K or the dazzo. I will be pairing it with the Tonedexter so I feel as though I don't really need the Dazzo but I like to do the installations myself.

So, you've totally given up on the Trance Amulet M-VT? I can't remember if you tried it with your ToneDexter or not.

AeroUSA · #24 03-03-2018, 11:13 PM

I hated every K&K install that I tried (three of them). The Tonic is just amazing. With a slight mid cut and treble boost it’s comparable to an ES2. With the Tone Dexter it works great. It’s the real deal.

Petty1818 · #25 03-04-2018, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

So, you've totally given up on the Trance Amulet M-VT? I can't remember if you tried it with your ToneDexter or not.

I think so. I tried it again today and I am getting a very piezo tone from it. It's also rather thin and bright. With the tone control, I pretty much need it almost all the way to the treble cut side and then it just becomes muddy sounding. I have never had any other pickups on the bridge plate so I can rule that out as being an issue. I have done the install about 5-6 times now and the results have always been similar, even with slight movements to the transducers. Starting to think that I either don't like the the overall tonality of the Amulet or it's just not a good match for the guitar.

I did pair it with the TD and it did work well. I am just thinking that at times I won't have the TD with me and I will need to rely on the pickup. I would like the pickup tone to be pleasing as well.

Edit: I just wanted to add that I have been tempted at times to use the epoxy that Teddy uses to install the Amulet transducers. I just feel that the tap is really not the best method. I have zero to base this one, I just know that to me, the transducers seem to produce a single that points to a bad contact with the wood. I even get the slightest amount of hiss when I turn it up.

SpruceTop · #26 03-04-2018, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I think so. I tried it again today and I am getting a very piezo tone from it. It's also rather thin and bright. With the tone control, I pretty much need it almost all the way to the treble cut side and then it just becomes muddy sounding. I have never had any other pickups on the bridge plate so I can rule that out as being an issue. I have done the install about 5-6 times now and the results have always been similar, even with slight movements to the transducers. Starting to think that I either don't like the the overall tonality of the Amulet or it's just not a good match for the guitar.

I did pair it with the TD and it did work well. I am just thinking that at times I won't have the TD with me and I will need to rely on the pickup. I would like the pickup tone to be pleasing as well.

Edit: I just wanted to add that I have been tempted at times to use the epoxy that Teddy uses to install the Amulet transducers. I just feel that the tap is really not the best method. I have zero to base this one, I just know that to me, the transducers seem to produce a single that points to a bad contact with the wood. I even get the slightest amount of hiss when I turn it up.

Although I've gotten good results from my installations using my C-clamp method, I've come to the conclusion that the permanent tape is still too thick to enable a super-good vibrational transmission to the Amulet transducers. Trance needs to research an even better adhesive method--the permanent tape would likely be excellent if it were rendered 1/3 (.003") its current thickness (try handling that!). You could try the epoxy adhesive method and, frankly, I'm almost sure it wouldn't give you any less vibrational transmission than the Trance permanent tape. I've not tried superglue with the Trance Amulet transducers and although it may render the best vibrational transmission, it's likely a one-way street because the superglue will react with the plastic casing and epoxy surface of the Amulets and likely result in their destruction if removal is attempted. K&K? Dazzos? Maybe? Conclusion: Beware The Rainbow Quest For Amplified Tone!

P.S. Why do I like Trance Amulet systems? After trying the Schatten Design HFN Artist with Volume/Tone controls (bought directly from Schatten Design to make sure I had the latest rendition of this system--yeah, I'm that anal!) I bought a Trance Amulet M-VT system, installed it and the difference between it and my two Schatten installs in two different guitars was night-and-day--so much so that within an hour of my Trance Amulet installation, I ordered another system from Trance.

Petty1818 · #27 03-04-2018, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Although I've gotten good results from my installations using my C-clamp method, I've come to the conclusion that the permanent tape is still too thick to enable a super-good vibrational transmission to the Amulet transducers. Trance needs to research an even better adhesive method--the permanent tape would likely be excellent if it were rendered 1/3 (.003") its current thickness (try handling that!). You could try the epoxy adhesive method and, frankly, I'm almost sure it wouldn't give you any less vibrational transmission than the Trance permanent tape. I've not tried superglue with the Trance Amulet transducers and although it may render the best vibrational transmission, it's likely a one-way street because the superglue will react with the plastic casing and epoxy surface of the Amulets and likely result in their destruction if removal is attempted. K&K? Dazzos? Maybe? Conclusion: Beware The Rainbow Quest For Amplified Tone!

P.S. Why do I like Trance Amulet systems? After trying the Schatten Design HFN Artist with Volume/Tone controls (bought directly from Schatten Design to make sure I had the latest rendition of this system--yeah, I'm that anal!) I bought a Trance Amulet M-VT system, installed it and the difference between it and my two Schatten installs in two different guitars was night-and-day--so much so that within an hour of my Trance Amulet installation, I ordered another system from Trance.

See and I am not getting those results at all. I might try one more installation of the Amulet but not really sure what that will accomplish. I guess I could try cleaning the bridge plate even though nothing has been on there before. The one weird thing with the Amulet as well is that yesterday I was getting these random interference sounds through my speaker, almost like the pickup was amplifying noise from other appliances. Turning the tone knob also resulted in a scratchy tone. Trust me, I want this system to work, it just gets frustrating after a while.

SpruceTop · #28 03-04-2018, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petty1818

See and I am not getting those results at all. I might try one more installation of the Amulet but not really sure what that will accomplish. I guess I could try cleaning the bridge plate even though nothing has been on there before. The one weird thing with the Amulet as well is that yesterday I was getting these random interference sounds through my speaker, almost like the pickup was amplifying noise from other appliances. Turning the tone knob also resulted in a scratchy tone. Trust me, I want this system to work, it just gets frustrating after a while.

Ask to send your system back for a replacement. You will get interference from home-phone, wireless, base stations--I have but you need to be within a couple of feet of the base unit. My advice is, being that the well is poisoned, chuck the Trance and go with something different. Only wishing you the best in your quest.

Doug Young · #29 03-04-2018, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Thanks. I am down to trying this, the K&K or the dazzo. I will be pairing it with the Tonedexter so I feel as though I don't really need the Dazzo but I like to do the installations myself.

I've struggled with the Dazzo and ToneDexter. The pickup is pretty lively, and with TD, it sounds distant and too resonant. Could be just this guitar, or my micing technique on this guitar, or...

Petty1818 · #30 03-05-2018, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I've struggled with the Dazzo and ToneDexter. The pickup is pretty lively, and with TD, it sounds distant and too resonant. Could be just this guitar, or my micing technique on this guitar, or...

Well that was good timing! Last night I was listening to Dazzo demos online and I started to worry about how they would match with the Tonedexter. I definitely hear that lively characteristic.

I feel like the K&K would probably make the most sense. I don't love the superglue method but it is a fairly easy install with pretty consistent results.

Doug, I forgot to ask as well.. I know you use the Dazzo, Barbera Soloist, Amulet and you have some guitars with the K&K in them. Which pickup do you find works the best with the Tonedexter/provides the best overall wavemap?