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Old 11-23-2019, 09:41 AM
L3stat L3stat is offline
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Default NGD: X30 arrived

I realised how long my post got, so here's the TLDR:

The good:
Excellent guitar, great ergonomics, great note separation and treble/bass balance.

The bad:
Some manufacturing flaws, but none too serious despite my OCD. More like feedback for Emerald to improve in their future builds.

The ugly:
I have a fundamental overtone issue that I have no idea how else to solve. I am considering returning the guitar because of this, even though I don't want to (I've posted an ad to sell my OM-42 before I discovered this).

For the bored/patient ones, here goes!

You might remember my order thread.

So I was away on business this week when the missus texted the magic words "your guitar arrived by the way" on Tuesday. After receiving the ransom note weeks before and paying the ransom I had become so consumed with work that I had neglected to ask for a tracking number or check if the guitar even shipped, though I did see my guitar during one of the shipping videos. So there I was trying to do my work dealing with jet lag and half distracted with thoughts like how great the guitar would be, what if it sucked and so on. Not fun!

Fast forward to yesterday, I apologise there's no unboxing video per the craze these days with everything new and shiny. You're just going to have to take my word for it. The guitar was well packed, shipping box was undamaged and everything was fine and dandy. I was also pleasantly surprised to find in the case a D'addario tuner given I had opted for that. I thought that $25 option was just the addition of a little CF piece for me to mount a tuner, not that the tuner would be included. Kinda strange that I could be misinformed about details like that, but more on that later.

Gave the guitar a quick spin, but soon life took over and I had to put it down. Had a bit more time today and played it more thoroughly. It's my first jumbo sized guitar and I have an OM-42, and a CA GX on loan in my possession. I was expecting with my first strum the window panes would shatter, glasses would break and little children and animals would run off in terror with their ears bleeding, but clearly that didn't happen. Jokes aside, the guitar sounds really big and full, and had very good note separation. I think it's louder but not a great deal louder than my OM. Not sure if that's having too high expectations or Martin makes a great OM. The trebles and bass are nicely balanced, be it fingerpicked or strummed. I know some people are worried about that, as was I, and it's not an issue at all. I'm not a great player and am a bit rusty so I'll spare your ears.

Ergonomics are great. I had worried before whether it would be too big. I'm not short (5'11"), but found Ds uncomfortable. The X30 is very comfortable and I think in no small part due to the overall design, especially the arm bevels. Playability is great due to the neck/cutaway design, and it's effortless reaching the higher frets despite this being a 12-fret. Unless you have very specific needs for your guitar to be a 14-fret, I wouldn't be worried by the 12-fret body.

Build quality is great, all the carbon weaves are even and there is no "wavy" effect near the headstock or neck that some reported before. Finishing is generally good, and the fret work is impeccable.

Now in my previous post I had mentioned I have OCD, and there are some flaws, but I do think I'm objective here.

(1) In the shipping video I had noticed a mark on the top near 4 o'clock with the guitar upright. I was worried about that so that's the first detail I looked for. Looking in greater detail, it wasn't an irregularity in the weave but rather what's best described as a slight "smudge" in the clear coat. The weaves underneath are even, but at certain angles there are what look like scratches in the clear coat. But clearly not on the surface that you could feel with a fingernail. You could see it at some angles but not feel it. Invisible from the playing position. Not a big deal.

(2) I had asked for slotted bridge holes per my order thread, with grooveless bridge pins. This was something I specified ad nauseam with Emerald and is pretty important for me, again described in my order thread. I was surprised to find the low E bridge pin sticking out about 2/3mm higher than the rest. During the string change (more on that later), I test fitted the bridge pins without the strings and they fit fine and snug, even in height and conforming to the curve on the saddle. The issue is that the slotting was inadequately done, and clearly the strings protruding out of the slots are preventing the bridge pins from being fully seated. A little disappointing, but not end of the world. I can probably find a local tech to clean this up.

(3) I had asked for Luminlay dots. Not that this should matter for the problem, but just for full disclosure. The 12th fret dots are drilled unevenly, one being noticeably further away from the fretboard surface than all the other dots. Apart from this errant dot, all the other dots are installed perfectly. It's noticeable, and even more obvious when you look down the neck. I think this happened to someone's 24th fret markers here before. Is it a big deal for me? My OCD would say yes, but I think I can overlook that. Being a 12-fret guitar, it's not like I need the marker to find the 12th fret anyway.

(4) These ones are really non-issues but just to be thorough. There's a small nick on the nut near the high E, runaway file/blade probably. Deep but probably can be buffed out if I bothered to. The matte fretboard is really nice, but I found an obvious ding near the 3rd fret. Can't be felt nor noticed in the playing position, so again no big deal. Definitely doesn't take away from the impeccable fret work.

All in all, I hope I don't sound too critical of Emerald, and I hope it's okay to reflect that here. I do have OCD so I'm a stickler for details and I see little things, no matter how small they are. These would be "feedback" issues, and not "customer service" issues for me. I'm a fan of Suhr guitars, and they deliver perfection. Not that that reflects anything on Emerald, just what I've been spoilt by. I just wanted to share my observations so someone else might benefit from my experience. Even in aggregate, I think these are small issues, and don't really diminish my experience so far.

Now, for the more fundamental problem I have and I could use your inputs and experience please. Having spent more time with the guitar, playing up and down the neck, strumming etc, I found something weird with the guitar that I can't get my head around. When playing the open B (standard tuning), there's this strange but noticeable "honk" or hollow overtone. I can only describe it to be "banjo-like", and it's quite distracting. It's especially obvious when I'm playing the open B repeatedly, but doesn't happen for the other open strings, nor when I fret the B on the lower strings (4th fret on G for instance). I've tried recording it, and it's easy to miss, but quite obvious in person.

I tried a few things. (1) My guitar shipped with standard lights, so I thought I'll restring with a 12-56 light-medium set I had handy. My heart sank when this funny overtone was still there. (2) I tried down-tuning half a step and it was gone, as when I fretted a B on the same string. But this is not an option for me because I play in standard tuning. (3) Back in standard tuning, I tried clipping a capo (Kyser I think) on the headstock, and it did reduce, but not eliminate the banjo honk.

I think it's a strange resonance thing when the guitar produces strange overtones, but don't understand why it only happens in that open position in standard tuning. Playing the same B fretted when dropped half a step doesn't, for example, nor does playing the same B fretted on an adjacent string. Does anyone have any other ideas I can try?

Notwithstanding my OCD, I can overlook/solve all the other small flaws. I like the guitar and want to keep it, but this strange overtone is quite fundamental and hard to bear. I am considering the possibility of returning the guitar, but would like to try everything I can (assuming Emerald would entertain a longer "trial period"). I haven't raised this with Emerald yet, and I apologise if this goes against some protocol I'm not aware of. I know most people have nothing but praise for Emerald. And like I said, I don't think most of the flaws I found are "customer service issues", and certainly not meant to criticise Emerald, but more like feedback so they can get their next build even better.

Assuming the worst, how would Emerald handle my issue? I'm worried because to be honest, I wasn't terribly impressed with my ordering experience (but I won't name my customer service rep just yet). To be fair, it could have been because I ordered during the mad September rush for orders to get fulfilled by Christmas, and also given the time difference I didn't call. My experience was that replies were not timely, some questions were overlooked and some answers given were vague, and still unanswered after repeated asking. This was why I had no idea a D'addario tuner would be included. Is there some merit to reaching out to Alistair directly? Or would that be bad form? I don't want to cause any problems for anyone. Any advice would be appreciated!

Sorry for the long post, thanks for reading if you've made it this far!

Last edited by L3stat; 11-23-2019 at 09:52 AM. Reason: Typos
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Old 11-23-2019, 10:16 AM
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RP RP is offline
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WOW! 2/3 mm difference is clearly a strong attention to detail. It seems that the B-string harmonic is not terribly uncommon, and if you google that you'll probably get all kinds of possible causes/solutions, one of which is the angle of string break over the saddle. You're clearly disappointed with your Emerald and the ordering process so I'd definitely contact Alistair directly.

I recently ordered two Emeralds from stock so no special ordering was involved. However, I also had to pay an unexpected ransom for the second, some sort of customs fee. When I complained to Emerald at the extra $238 charge, the initial response was less than helpful. At some point in our discussions Alistair got involved and agreed to split the charge. It's always a good idea to go to the top to get issues addressed. I've learned in my 69 years that "bad form" is spending a lot of $$ and swallowing your disappointment because you don't want to hurt someone's feelings or "cause problems for anyone"...

Last edited by RP; 11-23-2019 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 11-23-2019, 10:21 AM
jaan jaan is offline
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I’m sorry your NGD has issues. It’s somewhat disturbing that so many NGD of late from Emerald has issues ( your, the baritone, etc). I respect your calm even headedness. It’s possible that the nut slot is cut improperly on the B string. That’s generally the first place I’d look in this situation.
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Old 11-23-2019, 11:09 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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Have you checked the B-string nut slot to make sure it is clean of debris and properly cut?
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Old 11-23-2019, 11:23 AM
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raysachs raysachs is offline
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I've had similar issues on the B and G strings periodically with practically every guitar I've owned except a D28 I had for 25 years and don't remember anything like that, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen - I just don't recall it. I have an X7 and a 000-15SM at the moment, and occasionally one of those strings will sound funky to me when played open in the kind of banjo like way you describe. It might be there for a couple of days and then it's not. Or sometimes, it's there when I capo up a couple of frets. There's no rhyme or reason to it, but so far it's always resolved itself with the next string change or just with a different day. Sometimes I'll put a little bit of nut-lube in the nut-slots and sometimes that'll take care of it and sometime it won't.

I had an X20 for a while and when I first got it I changed from the spec strings to my favorite set of strings, and I had a horrible open-G rattle of some sort. I was thinking of taking it back, but my local tech suggested changing the strings again - I might have accidentally crimped the offending string. When I loosened them up to change them, sure enough, a visible kink in the string that I couldn't see under tension. Changed them out and never heard it again.

I'd let Emerald know that is't a potential problem, but I'd give it a bit of time and play and messing around with it before you send it back. It may be something worse, but it may not be...

Meanwhile, this line is causing me great angst: "I had worried before whether it would be too big. I'm not short (5'11"), but found Ds uncomfortable. The X30 is very comfortable and I think in no small part due to the overall design, especially the arm bevels.". I'm also about 5' 11" and am not comfortable playing dreads and have mostly put the X30 out of my mind. Until yet ANOTHER X30 owners shows up to report that it's much more comfortable than a dread despite it's enormity... So now I have to try to put it out of my mind again...

-Ray
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Old 11-23-2019, 11:39 AM
mountainmaster mountainmaster is offline
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I recognize that annoying ringing of the B-string. Some of my guitars have it. One of them is the Taylor if memory serves. And some of my electrics have it as well.

In my experience it is triggered by a strong down-stroke at the single B-string. Fortunately since I always play with my fingers I rarely produce enough power to make it happen.

With a little effort I can squeeze this sitar effect out of my new X30 as well even though its open B-string is in fact an A.

So I guess it is "normal" but for some guitars more than others.

A different string gauge sometimes fixes it. However, your string change may not have helped because the B-string in the light-medium set probably has the same gauge as the one in the light set. The "medium" in these combo sets usually applies to the bass strings.
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Old 11-23-2019, 07:53 PM
Mark L Mark L is offline
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Try stringing the b string tuner and pin with either an unwound g or a medium high e. Also swap out a bridge pin. Se if either of those alone or in combo change anything. Also check under the bridge area inside the sound box with a mirror or scope for burrs, etc.
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Old 11-23-2019, 07:56 PM
steelvibe steelvibe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark L View Post
Try stringing the b string tuner and pin with either an unwound g or a medium high e. Also swap out a bridge pin. Se if either of those alone or in combo change anything. Also check under the bridge area inside the sound box with a mirror or scope for burrs, etc.
The swap of a medium gauge high E for the B is a great idea! I've found that an increase in mass for both the B and high e really help with honky or tinny tones in the treble range.
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:16 PM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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Just for grins, try something: I had a phantom tone on a b-string a while back. I don't tend to be obsessive, but it bothered me. I looked all over for a cause, didn't come up with anything. On a whim, I touched the string between the nut and the tuning key and that phantom tone went away. Tried it repeatedly, and each time it went away. I put one of my wife's hair ties over all the strings, above the nut. And just went on with my playing.

At the next string change, that tone was gone. Haven't heard it again since. I did put a bit of graphite on the nut slot, but can't say that made any difference.

Try touching the b-string above the nut and see if it makes a difference.
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:42 PM
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Well this is certainly one of the more underwhelming NGDs I’ve seen on here.

Sorry to hear things did not go how you had hoped. Hopefully you get thing sorted to your liking.
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Old 11-23-2019, 11:38 PM
AZLiberty AZLiberty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
Have you checked the B-string nut slot to make sure it is clean of debris and properly cut?
This. I had a similar issue with one of my Rainsongs. Very slight radius to one of the nut slots. Made a "Warble" that drove me absolutely nuts.
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Old 11-24-2019, 01:35 AM
L3stat L3stat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RP View Post
WOW! 2/3 mm difference is clearly a strong attention to detail. It seems that the B-string harmonic is not terribly uncommon, and if you google that you'll probably get all kinds of possible causes/solutions, one of which is the angle of string break over the saddle. You're clearly disappointed with your Emerald and the ordering process so I'd definitely contact Alistair directly.
OCD is an affliction, and it's very real. It also grants a superpower in observation. Actually the low E stuck out quite obviously also because the rest of the pins were more or less conforming to the curve of the saddle.

I guess I will reach out to Alistair, and see what he thinks or what suggestions he has.
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Old 11-24-2019, 01:58 AM
L3stat L3stat is offline
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Thanks for all your inputs, even if I don't address each of your comments individually.

Many of you suggest that it might be an improperly cut nut slot. I know one (but not necessarily the only) symptom could be string binding during tuning. That did not happen with the factory string or my own (though they were the same gauge as some of you point out). I think though that the nut slot might not be the cause, because when I dropped a half step the problem went away. If that was the cause, one should reasonably expect the same when downtuned. During the restringing I didn't see anything strange, but that said, I'm not sure what exactly to look out for. I guess I will accept that a proper setup/check by a luthier is in order to eliminate this possible cause.

I will also try out the other idea of a higher string gauge, but that will take time to source, I don't have other string sets handy. Perhaps a "HD light" set in Elixir speak, medium treble strings with light bass ones. I don't bend a lot when I play an acoustic, I suppose that won't affect me much.

Last school of thought suggests that this is just a phenomenon specific to individual instruments. I will try adding more mass (beyond the capo) to the headstock to see that "shifts" the resonance. Need to dig out the C-clamp. Not super keen on sticking a lump of lead permanently to the back of the headstock, but maybe a heavier tuner set might work.

I still have the dilemma, assuming nothing else works, of whether to return the instrument within the trial period. But in any case, will reach out to Alistair to ask for more time and suggestions.

Last edited by L3stat; 11-24-2019 at 02:08 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old 11-24-2019, 02:01 AM
L3stat L3stat is offline
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I thought of this too, and tried it already. Didn't change anything, so probably not the cause.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Jim View Post
Just for grins, try something: I had a phantom tone on a b-string a while back. I don't tend to be obsessive, but it bothered me. I looked all over for a cause, didn't come up with anything. On a whim, I touched the string between the nut and the tuning key and that phantom tone went away. Tried it repeatedly, and each time it went away. I put one of my wife's hair ties over all the strings, above the nut. And just went on with my playing.

At the next string change, that tone was gone. Haven't heard it again since. I did put a bit of graphite on the nut slot, but can't say that made any difference.

Try touching the b-string above the nut and see if it makes a difference.
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Old 11-24-2019, 02:06 AM
L3stat L3stat is offline
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Not to add oil to fire, but it really is! I think you should find a way to try one out in person. There's no escaping the physics of having a larger body, but the design elements certainly help alleviate those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raysachs View Post
Meanwhile, this line is causing me great angst: "I had worried before whether it would be too big. I'm not short (5'11"), but found Ds uncomfortable. The X30 is very comfortable and I think in no small part due to the overall design, especially the arm bevels.". I'm also about 5' 11" and am not comfortable playing dreads and have mostly put the X30 out of my mind. Until yet ANOTHER X30 owners shows up to report that it's much more comfortable than a dread despite it's enormity... So now I have to try to put it out of my mind again...

-Ray
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