Power conditioning and EMI/RFI attenuation. Myth or reality?

[fishwatcher]

I’m confused about power conditioning and noise reduction from power strips and surge protectors.

It sounds like Furman is an industry leading brand in power conditioning for audio gear. I’ve read about their SS6B, SS6B-Pro, PST-6 and PST-8, and a PST 2+6.

The range in cost is pretty big between all of these, yet the descriptions are a bit vague on what’s really different.

If I want a clean power source for my amps (we usually use two, sometimes as many as three at a time) and pedals (probably no more than 4 at a time but up to 8 are plugged in via a Voodoo Labs X4 and another four are powered with a OneSpot daisy chain. The amps are fairly humble. 25-50 watt solid state amps.

I have some undesired noise..though it’s not terrible and mostly it’s worse when I have more than one distortion/overdrive pedal turned on. I usually play with humbucker a but also have a single coil strat in my collection, so there is some noise with that.
Which if any solution would help? I currently have them all running off of a single 6 plug strip, with no surge protection.

Thanks!

[fishwatcher]

APC Surge Arrest has even more outlets and is half the price of the higher end Furman products. It claims surge protection as well as EFI/RFI protection.

Would this be a good product?
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...protector.html

[Paleolith54]

Originally Posted by fishwatcher

I’m confused about power conditioning and noise reduction from power strips and surge protectors.

It sounds like Furman is an industry leading brand in power conditioning for audio gear. I’ve read about their SS6B, SS6B-Pro, PST-6 and PST-8, and a PST 2+6.

The range in cost is pretty big between all of these, yet the descriptions are a bit vague on what’s really different.

If I want a clean power source for my amps (we usually use two, sometimes as many as three at a time) and pedals (probably no more than 4 at a time but up to 8 are plugged in via a Voodoo Labs X4 and another four are powered with a OneSpot daisy chain. The amps are fairly humble. 25-50 watt solid state amps.

I have some undesired noise..though it’s not terrible and mostly it’s worse when I have more than one distortion/overdrive pedal turned on. I usually play with humbucker a but also have a single coil strat in my collection, so there is some noise with that.
Which if any solution would help? I currently have them all running off of a single 6 plug strip, with no surge protection.

Thanks!

For your typical home or gig setup, my experience is that they're a waste of money. If you have a little noise, it doesn't matter. If you have more, it's almost always your signal chain rather than your power source. If you have actual dirty power, the usefulness of the conditioners most of us are willing to afford seems pretty questionable. I went down that path, and regretted it.

Just one guy's experience.

[pipe dreamer]

I’ve been wondering about this as well.

I ended up getting the ‘pro’ version of a belkin power strip. It has 8 outlets and RFI attenuation. It was about the third of the price of cheapest Furman rack unit where I live. I’ve not yet used it but it does give me a little piece of mind even though Im aware I may not hear any/much difference though

[rick-slo]

In my case (Monster Pro):
turns one outlet into multiple outlets
gear powered off initial single initial outlet prevented ground loops
surge protection
staged soft power startups
all gear turned on with single switched

[C-ville Brent]

I have a couple of the less expensive Furhman's (SS-6B and PST-2+6) and like them. My home is a little over 20 years old so 'modern' wiring. I don't notice a lot of noise with regular power strips, but Furhman seems to be good quality, with usable outlet set ups, surge protection, and the company has a good reputation.

Saw a review of a store brand power conditioner in the price range of the PST. Reviewer had opened it up - a whole lot of empty space inside to fit a single rack space with 9 outlets. Didn't look like much in there, probably surge protector, but maybe not so much "power conditioning." My background is not in electronics so maybe not much is needed to "condition" sound

[tbeltrans]

I have a Roland V-Grand that I got on sale some 6 or 7 years ago for $16k. At the time, it sold for $26k. I still think that digital piano is at least as good, if not better than the best made today and I won't replace it unless it dies and replacement parts are no longer available. David Benoit, Lady Gaga, Lincoln Center, and other similar places and people own these.

For that, it is worth my having a high end Furman AR-1215. This device has a very large toriodal in it, and guarantees an output voltage of 117 volts for in put voltage between 97 and 120 volts. The main concern I would have is brown outs, rather than spikes. If the voltage is outside these limits, it will shut down. For less expensive equipment, I don't bother at home or use something much less expensive. New, the AR-1215 was originally around $600, but I got it half price at a sale at Guitar Center years ago. I really don't think a $300 protective device is too expensive for a $16k piece of equipment.

This is the unit:

https://www.amazon.com/Furman-AR-121.../dp/B000YZ46E2

So, rather than recommending everybody get one of these, I am illustrating an extreme case in which such protection under normal circumstances (i.e. in a sizable metropolitan area with usually stable electrical power) might want some sort of protection.

Tony

[maxtheaxe]

Definitely not a myth, but if you really want noticeable results, as with most things, it costs more...and can be very expensive indeed unless you're OK with a glorified power strip. I have a couple that are middling fair...slightly beyond the "better-than-nothing" stage.

I've also found that it helps to eliminate the space wastage with wall-warts if you get a pack or so of 3-prong, 15 amp AC cables in a 6" or 12" length.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by fishwatcher

I’m confused about power conditioning and noise reduction from power strips and surge protectors.

It sounds like Furman is an industry leading brand in power conditioning for audio gear. I’ve read about their SS6B, SS6B-Pro, PST-6 and PST-8, and a PST 2+6.

The range in cost is pretty big between all of these, yet the descriptions are a bit vague on what’s really different.

If I want a clean power source for my amps (we usually use two, sometimes as many as three at a time) and pedals (probably no more than 4 at a time but up to 8 are plugged in via a Voodoo Labs X4 and another four are powered with a OneSpot daisy chain. The amps are fairly humble. 25-50 watt solid state amps.

I have some undesired noise..though it’s not terrible and mostly it’s worse when I have more than one distortion/overdrive pedal turned on. I usually play with humbucker a but also have a single coil strat in my collection, so there is some noise with that.
Which if any solution would help? I currently have them all running off of a single 6 plug strip, with no surge protection.

Thanks!

The noise generated by pedals is a combination self noise and un-isolated power supply and especially daisy chaining power, allows noise to build up within the pedal chain and cleaner main power will only be of marginal value
The Gig Rig Modular Power system is not cheap but is said to be the best for isolating each pedals power and reducing unwanted noise in a Pedal chains

https://shopusa.thegigrig.com/power/

[phcorrigan]

IMO, in most cases, surge protection and power conditioning is unnecessary.

First, most electronic devices employ switching power supplies, which, by design, provide a significant amount or surge protection and EMI/RFI protection. They also include some degree of power conditioning, since they usually operate at a wide range of voltages, typically around 90-140V or 180-280V.

Analog power supplies, such as those used in some tube amps, may benefit, but IMO a UPS that provides constant voltage and surge protection is probably more beneficial than a power conditioner.

If you have issues with EMI/RFI that can be attributed to the power source, which is rare except in industrial environments, then your best bet is to solve the underlying problem before throwing money at power conditioners, etc.

BTW, one place I think surge protectors make sense is at the service entrance, the point where power enters the building. "Whole house" surge protectors are designed to protect against high-voltage events, such as those caused by lightning, something plug-in surge protectors are not designed to do.

Your mileage may vary.

[Bob Womack]

What power conditioning units are for is to remove square wave noise that is impressed upon the 60hz wave of the mains power from the wall. This typically emanates from nearby dimmers and motor control circuits. If you have those in your room or home you may get racket from the line current. That is different from RF and magnetic noise induced into the first stage of your signal before it goes into all the gain stages.


Bob

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

What power conditioning units are for is to remove square wave noise that is impressed upon the 60hz wave of the mains power from the wall. This typically emanates from nearby dimmers and motor control circuits. If you have those in your room or home you may get racket from the line current.

Agreed. In most cases it would be less expensive, and more effective, to replace offending dimmers. Motor controls usually aren't an issue in non-industrial environments. Even in office buildings, AFAIK, elevator and HVAC systems are rarely issues.

[RoyBoy]

I have a mid-grade Furman ($160) and it does NOT remove 60 cycle hum. Living in the lightening capital of the world, I feel it's worth protecting $2000 worth of amp and pedals.

[wrathfuldeity]

For the basement mole hole: Years ago, found a used computer UPS and a variac for $5 each. Took out the dead battery of the UPS > the variac for my old 110v tube amps. Works great. And the UPS > isolated power for > pedals; still get a tad of noise from pedals in the signal chain if the levels are push.