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mic comparisons
A friend of mine a two-part video comparing mic emulations and some of the available clones.
Included mics are:
I think he did a pretty good job with this and it should be helpful to folks who are mic shopping and want to get some sense of the differences between emulations, economical clones, and high end clones. He and I have had a lot of discussions about microphones over the years and are mostly in agreement. He's kinder to the Slate VMS than I would be. I find the Mic Mod emulations better than the Slate's if you have a good quality microphone for the input. There's only so much a piece of software can do with a sub-par microphone and that's where I think the Slate system really suffers. The mic is a cheap Chinese product made worse by poor quality control. The company is good about standing behind its product and offering replacements, but there are many people in their target group who aren't going to know better. For the same $1k it would cost for the Slate VMS, I think someone would be better served by purchasing the Mic Mod software for $150 and investing the other $850 in a quality used mic. That way, when they decide to move on from emulation, they still have a microphone that has some value. The Advanced Audio mics in this video are all around the $1k or lower price-point. I think they're great bang for the buck. Some companies do a very good job in the <$1k range. Advanced Audio is in that group, as is ADK, Warm, and some others. None of them are going to sound very close to the vintage mics they're attempting to emulate but their going to give you some of that flavor, and for some that's enough. The AA CM49 used in this video is impressive for a $1k microphone. It doesn't have the depth and bottom end of the Neumann M49, but the top end is quite beautiful. If someone wanted a 49 type mic and didn't want to layout the $4-7k a high end clone costs, the CM49 is a nice option. The Flea 47 (and that's my personal microphone in the video) is on a whole other level. The night we made the videos for this was the first time my friend, Vincent, sang into a Flea. He'd heard of them but he'd never actually been in front of one. The mic stopped him in his tracks. It sounded so good in the headphones that it was distracting him. As Vin describes it, the Flea has a 3-D quality to it. That's probably not a helpful term to describe sound but there's a depth to what you get from the Flea that you don't get from the others. The biggest difference between the Flea and the lower-priced clones and emulations is the bottom end. The Flea has that big bottom you hear in vintage 47s; the other do not. After we filmed this, Vincent had to try a Flea 49. He loved the 47 but his voice is better suited for a 49 type mic. He got a demo from Vintage King and wound up buying one a short time later. More recently, he sold off a bunch of the less expensive mics he owned and bought a 2nd Flea 49. He and his wife do duets and the second 49 made sense for them. For folks working within a budget, a microphone I really love that wasn't in the video is the Lauten Atlantis FC-387. In the neutral setting it has a very definite 47 vibe. A couple folks have borrowed mine recently and both of them have put that mic on their short list. It can be had for under $1k used and is a bargain at that. I hope these videos are helpful to some folks.
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Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube Last edited by jim1960; 11-09-2019 at 05:37 AM. |
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Thanks Jim1960 for Posting this. I am really looking forward to listening and watching this video later this week(a bit stressed for time right now, and I want to give this shootout a real going over)
Have you by any chance done any comparison testing on Soyuz tube 017? I hope to get a vocal mic next year some time and Flea and the Soyuz Tube 17 are on my list as high possibilities. ( but first I need to purchase my pair of Schoeps for guitar) |
#3
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Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |
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I have heard many an engineer say that in the recording studio line up, The musician is the most important. Second comes the instrument, Then the microphone, and lastly the preamp.
After listening to Him sing I have to say this is so true. He sounded great on every mic. What a great voice! In fact all of the mics sounded reasonable in the dry mode. However the tell all for myself, was the final mix. The Flea stood out with just the right amount of edge & Smoothness on each syllable. The song Came alive. As you said...3D-ish. The Slate modulations seemed just a bit to smooth. The Slate sounded good but lost the intimacy from everything being to round and even.Advance Audio was certainly good. But again...especially in the final mix with the added reverb, compression the Flea brought new life to the mix. I have always said that listening to a microphone dry is a good way to evaluate, however often when reverb is added it helps reveal the hidden benefits of the more expensive units. What ever harmonics, Frequency response or other characteristics that an upper end mic may have, is more easily found when reverb added. Excellent Video and very well done. Look forward to listening to part two.I bought a brand new Neumann U87 in the mid 1970's. It always came through for me. Found it a bit boring...but always worked. I stepped out of music for nearly 25 years. I had heard so many claims about how they could replicate the high end mics for 1/10 the price. I thought I was done with music and sold my Neumann. WHAT A MISTAKE....cause when I got back into music once again...all of those inexpensive mics have not done it for me. I wish they did, but they just don't. I have been saving up for three years to buy a pair of Schoeps for my acoustic guitar. And that day is just round the corner(Early Feb after NAMM). Recording gear is just so expensive...In fact, it is a bit ridiculous, those Scheops will cost me more than what I paid for my guitar! LOL....but in the end, the rewards of better equipment is just undeniable.Thanks for posting video! |
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Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |
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What's the explanation and evidence for some mics taking the use of reverb better than others? I'm very skeptical of that claim.
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Mic's and reverb ? I have heard/read some people say some mic's take EQ better, or can handle more EQ . But have not heard /read about mic's and reverb. I have no opinion either way,
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Sonoma 14.4 |
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I've no idea what the science is behind that, but perhaps it's akin to cooking: better ingredients make for a better meal.
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Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |
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My guess is that certain reverbs, for what ever reason, showcases the harmonics-overtones & the air of a mic. It of course all depends upon the reverb used. I believe that reverb does not effect all the frequencies with the same amplitude. It targets certain frequencies more than others. Think of different room sizes, and or walls. Such as A wood Wall verses a Cement wall verses an old fashion Plate. Each one of those room sizes, wall materials reach differently.Basically, it just make us notice those harmonics-frequencies a little more. |
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I am probably going a different route than most...I am going to most likely be purchasing a pair of Wide Cardiods. Schoeps has a very nice wide Cardoid....MK21 that intrigues me. But I still need to test..and renting those is costly as they are only available back east. |
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Sonoma 14.4 |
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In the end, our observations are all we have. We're all listening through different ears which are delivering sounds to our different brains. Some folks are more sensitive to different changes in sound than others. Some of those changes may be very obvious to some and go unheard by others. Subjective impressions won't necessarily have a scientific basis upon which to land.
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Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |
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Most schoeps users use the 4 or the 41's for acoustic guitar. Both of those caps sound great on acoustic, but for my style..of which I am a dynamic player going from fingerstyle to heavy strumming-- an moving the guitar a bit more than most, Omni's tend to work a bit better for me. As where the 41's seem a bit too focused, and the 4's I have proximity effect to deal with on my Dread. Thus the Wide cardiods have much of the omni feel....and the 21's seem like an obvious choice for myself. Of course, what looks good in theory and or on paper, doesn't always turn out that way.So I would love to contact him and get some more feedback as to how he uses them. |
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Yes I had a single CMC6-Mk 4 and really liked it BUT I agree it was so focused and my playing (not the cleanest) as well as sometimes varied dynamically etc., it was so focused I usually recorded with it backed off 12 to 24 inches away.... I ended up selling ( wish it could have afforded to keep it) and getting a pair of AEA N 22 Ribbon's , which overall are better suited for me and my style I think Here is the MK4 (you can see it in the merged close up coming off the mic stand) the camera perspective is funny, it is actually about 16-20 inches away, aimed at the lower part of the bridge. Here are the N 22's Pretty hard to compare accurately with different performances , different rooms , different mic's -guitar and vocal - The constants are the recording system it self, the mic pre -A Designs MP2A,- the analog mix Compressor IGS Tubcore 3U, - and the Bricasti M7 reverb.
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Sonoma 14.4 Last edited by KevWind; 11-25-2019 at 08:31 AM. |
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I haven't used the Schoeps, but from the specs the MK21 has a very good off axis response (consistent over their frequency range). This may be helpful for close micing. For recording my guitar (solo fingerstyle arrangements) I use a pair of Gefell M296S omnis in a spaced pair arrangement. I usually place mics back around 16-24" from the guitar. I also use gobos behind and to the sides of the mics.
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Chuck 2012 Carruth 12-fret 000 in Pernambuco and Adi 2010 Poling Sierra in Cuban Mahogany and Lutz 2015 Posch 13-fret 00 in Indian Rosewood and Adi Last edited by ChuckS; 11-25-2019 at 09:51 AM. |