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  #1  
Old 01-31-2013, 12:06 PM
gerberguitars gerberguitars is offline
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Default using UV cured Polyester, any advice?

We have decided to take the plunge and invest in UV cured polyester finishing. We will be using a 1000 watt lamp from UV3.com, and Simtech coatings. Any advice from other builders out there who are currently using UV cured polyester on acoustic guitars?
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:37 PM
JBam JBam is offline
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I've been using UV for 3+ years. There is a learning curve so spray some practice boards (as I am sure you will.) I have found that working to higher grits of sanding will allow you less time on the buffing wheel. I use, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2500, 3000. This stuff is hard so more time on the wheel means more heat. Not good! I use a larger diameter wheel at higher speed with a light touch. Seems like when I think I have a procedure that works, something changes. They didn't tell us that we would have to be chemists to build guitars. I'm always happy to talk to other using this system to compare notes. Overall I like the results. The best compliment I have had is when someone at the Montreal show asked what finish I was using. I replied UV Polyester and they said, "really, I though it was nitro." With a little practice you can achieve that "wet" look.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:53 PM
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My advice would be to save some money and try the chemically cured polyester first. Its virtually the same product just a different method of curing which will yield the same results but 24 hours slower to the buffer instead of 24 seconds. I have been using it for the last 2 years and its THE hardest finish I have ever buffed. Its brutal!
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:06 PM
JBam JBam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim McKnight View Post
My advice would be to save some money and try the chemically cured polyester first. Its virtually the same product just a different method of curing which will yield the same results but 24 hours slower to the buffer instead of 24 seconds. I have been using it for the last 2 years and its THE hardest finish I have ever buffed. Its brutal!
This is good advise. I still wait 3 days before final buffing. Honestly the biggest advantage of the UV for me is not having to clean the gun as often. Big price for a small convenience.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:38 PM
Tom Doerr Tom Doerr is offline
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I used UV polyester for 6 years and had good results but also with some issues. I and other builders have found delamination problems due to using the UV filler. I would pay attention to that if your filling with UV filler. I have also found that with a UV light there are inconsistencys of the poly curing fully. The best results I have had is pore filling with west systems, then spraying the iso sealer, then the poly top coats. I now sub all my finishes out but if I were to start spraying again I would agree with Tim and use the chemical cured poly. I like the fact that the chemical cured would cure fully. But both ways can produce a great finish. Best of luck.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:21 PM
BBWW BBWW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim McKnight View Post
My advice would be to save some money and try the chemically cured polyester first. Its virtually the same product just a different method of curing which will yield the same results but 24 hours slower to the buffer instead of 24 seconds. I have been using it for the last 2 years and its THE hardest finish I have ever buffed. Its brutal!
As an end user I think I was one of the first to get one of Tim's polyester finished guitars....I have to say the results were fantastic and I've yet to put a nick, scratch or blem in it. I don't have what I would call a "Light" touch.

With 25 years as a furniture craftsman (Several in the spray booth) I could always fix nitro...I wouldn't have a clue with this stuff. LOL
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:20 AM
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I thought polyester went out in like the 70s?
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:25 AM
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I thought polyester went out in like the 70s?
You should see my Leisure Suit!
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:04 AM
Brackett Instruments Brackett Instruments is offline
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Like Tim and Tom said I'd stay away from the UV cured stuff. Simtec also have chemically cured Polyester. I believe the UV exposure offers a bigger safety risk than handling the catalysts and accelerators for a chemical cure......as long as common sense precautions are used. I also believe under curing, or overcooking is possible when using a hand held light.


I use chemically cured Axon Polyester. (a local company for me)
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:27 AM
gerberguitars gerberguitars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBam View Post
This stuff is hard so more time on the wheel means more heat. Not good!
I will make sure to store this tip away in my mind. Heat.....BAD!

Thanks Jeff, I really admire your guitars by the way. I would really love to see one of them someday. Do you have any in Nashville?
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:31 AM
gerberguitars gerberguitars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Doerr View Post
I and other builders have found delamination problems due to using the UV filler. I would pay attention to that if your filling with UV filler. I have also found that with a UV light there are inconsistencys of the poly curing fully. The best results I have had is pore filling with west systems, then spraying the iso sealer, then the poly top coats.
Would a filler that is both UV cured and catalyzed be a help with this problem? One of the techs that I was talking with at Cardinal suggested using their filler that is UV and catalyzed so that deep down in the pores where the light can't get to, the catalyst will cure the filler. I'll check out the west systems filler as well. Thanks!
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:34 AM
gerberguitars gerberguitars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim McKnight View Post
My advice would be to save some money and try the chemically cured polyester first. Its virtually the same product just a different method of curing which will yield the same results but 24 hours slower to the buffer instead of 24 seconds. I have been using it for the last 2 years and its THE hardest finish I have ever buffed. Its brutal!
The thing that pushed us to the side of UV is that we were told that there is a discoloration that happens with the catalyzed poly. The guys from simtech said their product was less noticeable in this regard but that it's still present. In the real world, how much of a problem is this really? If it's not, we might change our minds......
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:51 AM
joe white joe white is offline
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The discoloring from the catalysts is not visible when applied to the instrument. You would have to build the finish to 1/4 inch or more before even noticing it. Even at 1/4" thick, after some time it actually turns a light amber. The polyester I use offers two colors of cobalt, red and the traditional blue. I use the red one and it really reduces the color of the polyester once mixed.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerberguitars View Post
The thing that pushed us to the side of UV is that we were told that there is a discoloration that happens with the catalyzed poly. The guys from simtech said their product was less noticeable in this regard but that it's still present. In the real world, how much of a problem is this really? If it's not, we might change our minds......
Mr. Gerber,
Check your PM inbox...
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:46 PM
Tom Doerr Tom Doerr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerberguitars View Post
Would a filler that is both UV cured and catalyzed be a help with this problem? One of the techs that I was talking with at Cardinal suggested using their filler that is UV and catalyzed so that deep down in the pores where the light can't get to, the catalyst will cure the filler. I'll check out the west systems filler as well. Thanks!
It definitely would be nice to have the filler catalyze chemically and also with the light. That is if it works properly. I would doubt that would help with adhesion issues. With that being said I am sure there are certain manufacturers that make the UV filler that would maintain great adhesion. I just know I had problem with mcfaddens. There is a lot of great advice here on the forum and you will find what works best for you.
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