Fishman Aura / merge

[meridian]

Originally Posted by Pat

Anyone interested in making their piezo equipped guitar REALLY sound like a studio mic'd guitar has got to check out this site: www.fishmanaura.com

You won't believe how AWESOME this thing is. You have to just hear it for yourself!!

Welcome to the Forum Pat and thanks for the link! pretty impressive little gadget. Funny how the one thing they don't tell you is what it costs! hahaha

[guitaniac]

Admiral,

According to the Aura manual (which can be downloaded off the Fishman site), the Aura is only intended for use with an undersaddle pickup (UST) or magnetic soundhole pickup. Interestingly, though, someone in another thread has reported good results with an iBeam-equipped guitar.

The Aura's "street price" is around $300.

As I understand it, the process of creating a sound image file requires the simultaneous recording of a studio quality mic recording and a direct-from-pickup recording. The sound image web name would describe the guitar, the pickup and mic(s) used. MHD28SM58NT1, for instance, would be a Martin HD28, equipped with a Fishman Matrix Natural I pickup, recorded with one or more Shure SM58 dynamic mics. (Most of the recordings were done with condenser mics, but a few were done with dynamic mics, for whatever reason.)

At any rate, once they have pickup recording A and mic recording B, they can create a computer algorithm (sound image file) which the Aura uses to convert a pickup signal to a simulated mic signal. Theoretically, the closer your guitar/pickup "driver" rig is to the actual guitar/pickup rig used to create the sound image, the better the Aura works. For optimum results, Aura users should have a custom made sound image file made for the specific guitar/pickup rig which they intend to use with the Aura. Aura endorser Harvey Reid has had custom sound image files made for seven of his instruments. He claims the Aura is "astounding" when used with custom made sound files.

Unfortunately, a great deal of Aura commentary was lost when the forum moved and the amplification/electronics section (with all those controversial ES threads) was disguarded. If you're interested in reading some commentary on the Aura, I suggest doing a search on AG mag's Gear forum.

Gary

[meridian]

$300?? Cheaper and easier than retro-fittting an ES in my 810!

[kramster]

I picked up an Aura, thanks for remembering me Gary, awhile back, and it is cool. But now with my Yammy Silent Guitar I use the Korg AX10A. (Preset 41 with pedal pushed down) I love this set up through the Bose PAS. Sounds so full and rich even when I fingerpick and strum pickless. Never use a pick much.
I was playing out the other night at (Alice) Cooper's Town's Dungeon in downtown Phoenix and my friend played it with a pick and I couldn't believe how good it sounded. He doesn't like the feel of the YSG but his Taylor 712 (I think it is that model) with the ES quit on him. Yup, just up and died.
I'm still waiting for my Line 6 Variax acoustic.

[Admiral]

Thank you Gary, now I understand what they mean.

[Taylorplayer]

Hey now ~

Pat - those demos are most impressive! Thanks for posting the info. Folks it's really worth the time to give them a listen.

Hearing just how impressive that unit sounds makes me really glad that I still have a Fishman equipped Taylor!

I'll definately be "budgeting" for a Fishman Aura in the very near future!

thanks again,
taylorplayer

[Pat]

Hey Admiral, I wanted to explain the audix mic thing. The sound image is of the guitar recorded with the audix mic. A mic was not used to record the sound clip. The sound image inside the Aura was designed using the audix mic to record the guitar. Do you know what I mean??

[Vancebo]

After checking out the Fishman Aura sight it seems to me that it doesn't really matter what pickup you use because what comes out of the speaker is not your guitar anyway but a "sound image" or "sample" so-to-speak of any great sounding guitar of your choice combined with your favorite sounding studio mics. Heck, maybe you could plug in your $150 junker guitar and make it sound great with that. In any rate I am very interested in hearing one of those live if I could find someone who is carrying them. It could sound very sweet going through my Bose PAS!

[wade]

I've had the Aura for about a month, and so far I'm very happy with it. I've only used it with my Fishman matrix equipped 810 so far, but I have a feeling the Aura would be good for a lot of guitar/pickup combinations - especially with all the sound image downloads that are available on the website.

I've used a couple of the factory-installed presets, and the sound is very natural - even when the blend is set more towards pickup than the sound image. I echo what someone else said about it perhaps not being the best for a band situation, but solo or in a setting with a few other acoustic instruments, I think it is excellent.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Taylorplayer

Hearing just how impressive that unit sounds makes me really glad that I still have a Fishman equipped Taylor!

While Taylor was busy investing millions in developing the ES system, Fishman was investing millions in developing Aura. While Bob Taylor was derisively pronouncing the "duck" to be dead, Fishman was finding a way to turn their quacky duck into a swan. It may well be that the owners of Fishman-equipped guitars will have the last laugh.

On the other hand, it could be that D-TAR's Timberland pickup system (with its higher-headroom preamp and reportedly reduced quack) will work even better with the Aura, or D-TAR's Mama Bear digital box. Its hard for me to imagine that aggressive strumming won't cause *some* kind of quack problem with the Fishman/Aura rig.


Wade,

Thanks for the user feedback on your Fishman-equipped Taylor/Aura rig. Can you give us an indication of how the rig handles hard strumming? Do you still have to be careful not to overdrive the Fishman pickup, when using it in conjunction with the Aura?

Thanks again,
Gary

[wade]

Gary, you know what's funny? I read a lot of your posts about the Aura on other message boards before I bought it, so you definitely influenced my decision to purchase it.

Anyway, I think the Aura works fine with strumming; the guitar still sounds natural. And I don't worry about overdriving the pickup - I've never even thought about it, actually. I add a bit of compression (which comes with the unit) to smooth things out. That said, I've heard guitars through other preamps - the Avalon U5, specifically - that added a punch to the strumming that the Aura doesn't seem to have. Maybe that's what Fishman intended, though.

Another thing I should add: I bought and was ready to install the LR Baggs Element Active pickup in my guitar, but the Fishman Matrix seems to work so well with the Aura that I've decided to put off installing the new pickup for now. Until I hear what people with Element Active-equipped guitars think about the Aura, I'm going to wait.

[guitaniac]

Wade,

When I refer to "overdriving" a UST, I'm referring to picking or strumming so hard that the initial string attack generates a voltage spike which overdrives the preamp and causes the clipping/distortion which many folks call "piezo quack". (Sounds like crinkling cellophane to me.) In discussions about quack, many players of UST-equipped guitars will tell you that they've learned to avoid quack by playing more lightly. Others have a light-handed style to begin with, so quack is never a big issue for them.

In any event, my suspicion is that if one *does* play hard enough to generate quack, the Aura (or any other digital box) won't be able to turn that distorted part of the signal into anything musical. I wouldn't doubt that the Aura's compression might tone down a quack problem somewhat (as the Fishman Pro EQ Platinum's "smooth control" does), but not eliminate it. Also, compression tends to limit the player's dynamic expressiveness somewhat. The ideal situation is to have a pickup which responds dynamically to hard playing, rather than "quacking out".

The claim is that D-TAR's Timberline UST system (with its 18v power supply and preamp's higher headroom) is less quacky and more dynamically responsive. I haven't been able to verify that claim yet, though I received a Timberline system on Friday. My old '68 Martin has an overly thick tail block and the shaft of the preamp/strap-jack assembly won't extend far enough thru the hole in the tail block. Looks like I'll be spending this coming week trying to find a longer strap-jack and (hopefully) rigging something up. I'll report on the Timberline system if/when I get it working. I've already made DAT recordings (for comparison) off the Highlander system that was previously in the guitar. Those recordings definitely show a quack problem with aggressive strumming - though the Highlander is less quacky (IMO) than the Fishman pickups which I've had in several guitars.

As for the Baggs Element Active vs the Fishman Matrix, the Element sound (IMO) is more articulate and has more body in it. (The Element senses in both directions, while the Matrix is string oriented.) The Element certainly isn't quack free, however. (The Element sound is extremely detailed, so some might even perceive it as more quacky than the Fishman.) My suspicion is that the Matrix pickup will work as well as the Element, or better, with the Aura's factory loaded sound images. All those images were created with Fishman pickups.

If you haven't checked it out already, Wade, I suspect that you'll find some Element-inclusive sound images in the complete gallery of Aura sound images - available in the download section of the Aura website.
http://www.fishmanaura.com/code/downloads.asp

My own inclination, though, would be to stick with the Fishman/Aura combination - if you're as satified with it as your posts seem to indicate.

Thanks again for the report. I've been (not so) patiently waiting on Mama Bear, but the Aura is sounding better and better.

Gary

[jhchang]

Aura is not a new idea. It does exactly the same thing as YAMAHA AG STOMP! Have you tried one of those? I bought one 2 years ago. It can color my cheap Fender acoustic to sound beautiful. So you don't really need a Taylor with it. It's sorta like an effect to electric but for acoustic. It will help if you need different tone for different music style with only one guitar. In other word it makes your guitar sound different. But again, Yamaha has it for years already.

[guitaniac]

I had a Yamaha AG Stomp for two years. I found that a small amount of close condenser mic simulation did indeed improve the tone of most UST signals. I sold it because I found that I like the tone of a PUTW "Dynamic Duo" (UST and SBT wired directly in parallel) better. Unfortunately, I found that any amount of the Stomp's mic simulation was actually counterproductive with the Dynamic Duo signal, or any other SBT signal that I tried. (All of these digital boxes are reported to work better with a pure UST signal.)

In any event, I'm looking forward to discovering if a UST/Mama Bear or UST/Aura combination is as pleasing (or more pleasing) to my ears as the Dynamic Duo. A cool thing about the Timberline UST system (which I'm testing now) is that I can actually open it up and wire an SBT directly in parallel to the UST - if I choose to do that at some point down the line.

Update from my last post: I did manage to get the Timberline sytem installed in my old D28, thanks to some very helpful advice from Rick Turner. Apparently, Rick had the same problem (thick tail block) with one or two of David Crosby's Martins.

Getting back to the Aura/AG Stomp comparison, most of the feedback (from the folks who've used both) is that the Aura is far surperior. I do seem to recall, however, that one Harmony Central reviewer (the lone wolf who panned the Aura) thought the Stomp was just as useful. "Your mileage may vary", as they say. Its interesting to me that Kramster has found that the less expensive Korg AX10A works better (than the Aura) with his Yamaha Silent guitar. Its obvious that the usefulness of any particular digital box will depend somewhat on the guitar/pickup rig that its being used with.

Gary

[kramster]

I had a Stomp Box before I got the YSG and PAS. Brought it back because at the time it didn't help much with what I had (A lot fewer toys at the time). It would probably be cool now to have but I'm cool with the Korg. I tried the Aphex Acoustic Exciter with the YSG to PAS but not impressed.