Arrggghh!!! No monitors.

pmarino · #1 08-14-2013, 04:34 PM

Sorry for the title, I'm just SO frustrated. Just got back from an acoustic open mic night in town that didn't go very well. The person running the board claimed that there was feedback from me and/or my other guitar player, so his quick solution before we started was to turn down our monitors. Neither of us could hear a thing. I could hear my vocals, which of course, were not spot on given my inability to hear the music.

The two of us have gigged together a number of times and are fairly-well rehearsed, but tonight we struggled. I know it's just an open mic night at a pub and only 10 people might have been listening anyway, but it's so upsetting. Monitors were up for those before us, and for the act after us. As I said, "Argggghh!"

chitz · #2 08-14-2013, 05:20 PM

Been there, done that! And it was my stupidity asking for the monitors to be turned down b/c of feedback. But putz turned them OFF!!!

Big_Al · #3 08-14-2013, 05:32 PM

I've cut side sound ports in my guitars for this very reason. Works pretty well . . . built in monitor.

plroad21 · #4 08-14-2013, 06:05 PM

chalk it up as a learning experience. i used to do tons of 3-4 hour gigs with no monitors whatsoever, due simply to the fact that my small PA didn't have any. it's not something i would prefer to do anymore, but it can serve as a good test of how well you know your voice. over time, you'll start to learn how the notes "feel" to sing. once you start to get better at that, you'll be able to handle any situation you're thrown, which, as you've seen will come in very handy when dealing with the types of sound guys you usually have in those situations...

now, when i do solo acoustic gigs, i take a set of in-ear monitors or earbuds and just run a long cable from the headphone jack of the mixer.

akafloyd · #5 08-14-2013, 07:15 PM

open mics can be rough... It's fun to dream of the day when we can walk out on stage to adoring fans, have someone hand me a tuned guitar, when I'm done I can leave someone else to pack up all the gear.... In the meantime, our band plays at parties of our drummer's friends who want the drummer and all the electric guitars, basses, keyboards, and sound gear, and we wonder why no one is inside listening to the music in the little living room but are outside with an acoustic guitar playing in the background... ok, I feel better now...

jomaynor · #6 08-14-2013, 07:31 PM

Yeah, that's discouraging. Sorry.

I'm curious: what were you using for a guitar pickup/mic that was different from the other performers who didn't get the silent treatment?

pmarino · #7 08-15-2013, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jomaynor

Yeah, that's discouraging. Sorry.

I'm curious: what were you using for a guitar pickup/mic that was different from the other performers who didn't get the silent treatment?

It was my new Sigma with a Fishman Sonitone pickup. My second guitar player had a Martin DX1AE, also with Fishman Sonitone electronics. Just a poor set up in terms of speakers, monitors, & microphones, I guess.

pmarino · #8 08-15-2013, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akafloyd

open mics can be rough... It's fun to dream of the day when we can walk out on stage to adoring fans, have someone hand me a tuned guitar, when I'm done I can leave someone else to pack up all the gear.... In the meantime, our band plays at parties of our drummer's friends who want the drummer and all the electric guitars, basses, keyboards, and sound gear, and we wonder why no one is inside listening to the music in the little living room but are outside with an acoustic guitar playing in the background... ok, I feel better now...

Oh, I understand. I've played at decent places before where the sound guy actually works to get it right, and also at open mics like this one before, so I know it can be rough. This was a new experience, though. I just would rather have our off nights come down to our mistakes rather than be put in such a difficult position. It was really something, to hear nothing coming from the guitars. In the end, it may not have been as bad as I imagine, but it was uncomfortable for sure.

Andy Howell · #9 08-15-2013, 01:52 AM

It happens. And,mod course, many peope running sound boards seem to have no idea what an acoustic sounds like!

Joseph Hanna · #10 08-15-2013, 08:07 AM

If you're ever inclined Phil, look up some of the written articles and even youtube interviews with Tommy Emmanuel on the topic of soundmen and on-stage monitoring. You can clearly trace his reactions and path to how he monitors his guitars even to this day. His position (which was formed in his early 325 night a year solo gigs) is that he simply had to find a way to take command of his on-stage sound and greatly reduce the role of a new FOH guy he was encountering virtually every night. His solution was (at least initially)to mix his entire show on-stage via his own rig, which included his now infamous Alesis reverbs and then simply provide a mic for his amp. From there he instructed questionable sound-men to turn it up or turn it down and leave the rest to me on-stage.

I know some open-mic situations make it impractical to lug "rigs" up on stage but personally I'd never, never relinquish total control of my on-stage sound to an unknown sound guy. I'd have to have some carry up solution. The little Fishman amp is small enough to sit on the floor next to you without notice, has a DI, is loud enough to handle any stage situation, can be placed strategically to eliminate feed-back and eliminates the sound-man vs guitars in the monitors syndrome.

jricc · #11 08-15-2013, 08:14 AM

Maybe you and your mate could get soundhole plugs for your guitars. It's an inexpensive ($10 or so) way to help cutdown FB.

pmarino · #12 08-15-2013, 08:32 AM

Thanks, Joseph and jricc for the helpful suggestions.

jseth · #13 08-15-2013, 12:15 PM

Yep... one of my LEAST favorite ways to perform, when I can't hear what the heck is going on "out there"...

It is really difficult for me, if not impossible, to bring all I have to a show when I can't hear myself or my guitar. That's one of the reasons I love my Bose PA so much, because I hear EXACTLY what my audience is hearing...

Prior to having my Bose L1 Classic, I had a very nice system; I would place the main speakers on stands, out in the room, and angle them so I could hear the FOH mix. I have always disliked using monitors; they never sound as good as the mains and usually don't have any reverb or FX in that mix... so, again, I'm disconnected from what my audience is hearing...

I don't know what could be done at an Open Mic about all of this... unless the house sound man was willing to have a cogent discussion about the needs of the performers...

pmarino · #14 08-15-2013, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jseth

unless the house sound man was willing to have a cogent discussion about the needs of the performers...

Yeah, that was not going to happen. He was already a few beers into the evening.

Aaron Smith · #15 08-16-2013, 08:08 AM

I love all the threads on this forum where open mic players ask which pickup is right for them, and they get recommendations for multi-source setups with microphones, externally powered mixing pre-amps, etc. Those people should all be directed to this thread.

I used to run an open mic, and I consider myself to be a pretty capable sound guy. As the host, my first priority was to get people on and off the stage quickly and efficiently, so as not to chase off the paying customers with endless sound checking and long transitions. My second priority was to get the front-of-house sound mixed properly for the audience, without feedback. My third priority was managing the stage mix for the performers. Sometimes, it takes a full two songs to get everything in balance. Then you get to do it all over again for the next performer. People that showed up with complicated and unusual setups drove me completely mad- because of course it was MY FAULT that the sound wasn't dialed in exactly to their liking at the beginning of the first song.

While I am aware that some open mic hosts are better than others, I think that players need to make it a priority to make things easy. The easier you make it on the guys running the board, the better you're going to sound. If you want to make things complicated, do it at your own gigs.

Pmarino, it sounds like you had a pretty simple setup and you did your part... the rest is up to the sound guy. And while it's frustrating as a performer, give the sound guy some slack too- it's harder than it looks.