Schatten HFN passive pickup - my experience - Page 5

Petty1818 · #61 02-21-2019, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

Are you guys still loving this? I want to try one!

I have tried most of the popular pickup choices discussed here on AGF and the HFN is my personal favourite. Super simple install, adds zero weight to the guitar and it's affordable. I find it's most similar to the K&K pure mini but with much more clarity. I honestly tend to leave the eq flat, maybe even cut some high end.

TNO · #62 02-21-2019, 09:23 PM

I was just running mine through my Schertler Jam 150 and it really does the "guitar, just louder" thing. Way better than my K&K-equipped guitar.

Dougrun · #63 03-27-2019, 05:10 PM

anyone installed on a 12 string? I have an old ovation applause i'd like a decent pickup for.

hotroad · #64 03-27-2019, 05:46 PM

Pairing the passive Shatten HFN with the Bose S1 which many here use, does not work. There has to be a preamp or an amp like the Fishman Loudbox Mini that gives it the power it needs. That issue would go away with the active Shatten HFN. Just a heads up here.

Rockin'Robin · #65 07-10-2019, 02:56 PM

Hi guys I just installed a HFN in a Dowina guitar, that has great clarity and balance. The plugged in sound is gorgeous even straight through my Bose S1 pro, gets better with some DI or Preamp.

Still I'm very picky and I'm finding that the string to string volume is not balanced. D and G strings are louder and way more "in your face". A and B strings are where it should be, while both E strings are weaker and back in the mix (esp the high E).

I made the install with tape, without trimming the extra in-between-legs tape.

What is your take on that? Would trimming the tape help balance the D and G? But I don't think it would make anything about both E strings. I was thinking of maybe putty in the center foot will have lower transfer efficiency thus balancing the D and G strings. What about putting extra putty on top and around the outter legs to get more contact toward the high and low E strings?

Thanks

GuitarLuva · #66 07-10-2019, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin'Robin

Hi guys I just installed a HFN in a Dowina guitar, that has great clarity and balance. The plugged in sound is gorgeous even straight through my Bose S1 pro, gets better with some DI or Preamp.

Still I'm very picky and I'm finding that the string to string volume is not balanced. D and G strings are louder and way more "in your face". A and B strings are where it should be, while both E strings are weaker and back in the mix (esp the high E).

I made the install with tape, without trimming the extra in-between-legs tape.

What is your take on that? Would trimming the tape help balance the D and G? But I don't think it would make anything about both E strings. I was thinking of maybe putty in the center foot will have lower transfer efficiency thus balancing the D and G strings. What about putting extra putty on top and around the outter legs to get more contact toward the high and low E strings?

Thanks

It sounds like uneven contact with the 3 feet of the pickup across the bridge plate. If I were you I would try using a small bit of putty on each foot instead of tape and see how that goes. I've done 4 installs so far, 3 were putty and my latest one was with tape. I haven't experienced any string balancing issues yet with either install and I might just swap my latest install to putty on that guitars next string change just to remain consistent.

Ten · #67 07-10-2019, 05:19 PM

I repositioned and thought my very similar imbalance issue was fixed (D string noticeably louder), but then noticed it to a lesser degree. I then took mine out and removed the putty from the middle foot, only using putty on the outer feet, and reinstalled. Issue totally resolved.

I turned the gain down from 80% to about 20% at the same time, but I’ll probably adjust that again at the next string change. I think a combination of the high gain and imbalance caused an issue with the tone getting a bit distorted, and it sounds great now, but I’d like the gain as high as I can get as long as it doesn’t affect the tone or allow extra noise due to being too low.

stevecuss · #68 07-10-2019, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ten

I repositioned and thought my very similar imbalance issue was fixed (D string noticeably louder), but then noticed it to a lesser degree. I then took mine out and removed the putty from the middle foot, only using putty on the outer feet, and reinstalled. Issue totally resolved.

I turned the gain down from 80% to about 20% at the same time, but I’ll probably adjust that again at the next string change. I think a combination of the high gain and imbalance caused an issue with the tone getting a bit distorted, and it sounds great now, but I’d like the gain as high as I can get as long as it doesn’t affect the tone or allow extra noise due to being too low.

I now use a passive HFN and have been surprised and a bit disturbed by just how high I have to crank the gain in the external preamp. I played through an Avalon U5 DI and the gain was on 8! But the pickup behaved beautifully and it seemed quite happy with external cranked gain. If I recall, my usual go to DI, the Ultrasound, doesn't need near the gain that the Avalon needed.

Rockin'Robin · #69 07-18-2019, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

It sounds like uneven contact with the 3 feet of the pickup across the bridge plate. If I were you I would try using a small bit of putty on each foot instead of tape and see how that goes. I've done 4 installs so far, 3 were putty and my latest one was with tape. I haven't experienced any string balancing issues yet with either install and I might just swap my latest install to putty on that guitars next string change just to remain consistent.

So I went a long way experimenting with the pickup. I've found that the outer feet were slightly bent outwards, which could account for less contact there and thus weaker E strings. In the same time I experimented with lateral positionning of the pickup relative to the saddle and found that I could achieve better balance when the pickup is slightly (i'm taking 0.5mm here) towards the pin slots, but then the sound went thin especially on the high strings (think direct electric guitar sound). When the pickup was slightly towards the soundhole, I got a bigger fuller sound but the balance couldn't get right, it seemed to me that the high B and E strings didn't like that placement that much and their volume dropped.

So I went ahead and sanded the feet to get a more even contact. Also, to get rid of the hot D and especially G strings I tried putty under the center foot - didn't like it - then half a piece of tape to get less contact. This seemed to work wonders to even out these middle strings, but yesterday when I made my last install I had thin B and E strings (might be too far on the pins side). But today they are sounding good... go figure?

It seems to me that the placement of the pickup is very touchy, but keep in mind that I am very picky.

So today the pickup sounds good, the high strings are sounding maaaaaaybe a little thin and harsh at times, I'll wait few days to see if that changes. And today the best sound I get from it is straight into my Bose S1 pro. All my DIs, preamps or even my Black Box are altering the sound in a way I don't like. Strangely, they all seem to eat the low end.

Last note, comparing this vs my K&K equiped Gibson is night and day. I can get a good tone out of the K&K with a Sunnaudio pre + the Bose Tonematch preset for guitars, and maybe lift a little more the highs. With the HFN I spent hours trying to install it right, but it sounds gorgeous straight in.

guitarman68 · #70 07-18-2019, 01:14 PM

Now I'm one happy camper after finding the perfect pickup for the most impressive guitar I own: My Merrill OM18 is resonant, full sounding, delicate ... but she refused to sound great plugged in. I have a lot of experience installing pickups, using various preamps with various pickup/mic combination. The K&K trinity system (PU/mic) always sounded to boxy (love it in other guitars) as did the Dazzo combined with a DPA 4061 mic (love it in other guitars).
Even the ToneDexter could not supply a decent sound with one of the mentioned Pups.

The winner is:
SCHATTEN HFN

Thanks to you guys for spreading the word about the HFN.

GuitarLuva · #71 07-18-2019, 06:31 PM

Yes it really is an awesome pickup. The tone, ease of install and no glue. Wicked!

Petty1818 · #72 07-20-2019, 10:59 AM

Has a consensus been reached on whether or not a UST will impact the tone of the HFN? At some shows, the HFN hasn’t fed back but it’s been a bit more of a challenge to get sounding right. I kind of want to install a fish man matrix and pair it with the tonedexter for times where I need to quickly plug in and get a very usable and good sound.

GuitarLuva · #73 07-20-2019, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Has a consensus been reached on whether or not a UST will impact the tone of the HFN? At some shows, the HFN hasn’t fed back but it’s been a bit more of a challenge to get sounding right. I kind of want to install a fish man matrix and pair it with the tonedexter for times where I need to quickly plug in and get a very usable and good sound.

It's hard to say with 100% certainty but I had the Matrix UST paired with the HFN and couldn't hear any noticable difference. Word of caution though I also found the Matrix feedback rejection to only be a touch better than the HFN. Not worth it IMO. I did end up wrecking my Matrix UST and replaced it with Schatten's UST. Again I don't hear any noticable difference but the Schatten UST has great feedback rejection.

Petty1818 · #74 07-20-2019, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

It's hard to say with 100% certainty but I had the Matrix UST paired with the HFN and couldn't hear any noticable difference. Word of caution though I also found the Matrix feedback rejection to only be a touch better than the HFN. Not worth it IMO. I did end up wrecking my Matrix UST and replaced it with Schatten's UST. Again I don't hear any noticable difference but the Schatten UST has great feedback rejection.

Really? That's very strange. I used a Matrix for years before trying different systems and never had feedback with it. Mind you, I have never honestly had feedback with any pickup I have used and that's including the Amulet, Lyric, HFN etc. I use loud monitors as well, maybe I am just lucky or maybe my guitar is just not that boomy. I more so want the Matrix for a bit more of a simple set up when I need it.

The Schatten UST is an option as well but I don't like how it seems to have the same design as the Element, which I feel hurt the unplugged tone of my guitar.

GuitarLuva · #75 07-20-2019, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petty1818

The Schatten UST is an option as well but I don't like how it seems to have the same design as the Element, which I feel hurt the unplugged tone of my guitar.

That's always a concern for me as well. I haven't had much luck with the element. It always seemed to take some of the life away from a guitar I put it in. The Schatten UST is certainly similar in design to the element but it has a hard plastic coating over it where it sits in the saddle slot. I couldn't hear any difference with or without it. There certainly might be one but if my ears can't hear it I'm ok with it.