The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Carbon Fiber

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #136  
Old 01-03-2019, 06:39 PM
jwellsy jwellsy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 928
Default

I doubt the rework pile ever gets mixed with the shipping pile again.
__________________
-------------------------------
Emerald Green Wing, Multi Scale Length X10
Emerald Ruby Cross, Multi Scale Length X30
Breedlove Blond Jumbo
Yamaha Silent Steel String
  #137  
Old 01-03-2019, 06:48 PM
David Eastwood's Avatar
David Eastwood David Eastwood is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melt in the Sun View Post
Just another note - Alistair was right about the truss rod. A little more pushing and wiggling got the wrench further I to the hole, and I was able to tighten the rod. It's way down there!
Might be worth a note with new instruments to clarify that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwellsy View Post
I doubt the rework pile ever gets mixed with the shipping pile again.
Agreed.
__________________
Martin 0-16NY
Emerald Amicus
Emerald X20
Cordoba Stage

Some of my tunes: https://youtube.com/user/eatswodo
  #138  
Old 01-03-2019, 07:16 PM
Guest 928
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Earl;

Well said! I've had some negative experiences including where a dealer sold me a B stock guitar without noting it as such, and denied that it was a B stock even though the Big B was stamped on the headstock. It's a hard world out there. Feels pretty good in here.
  #139  
Old 01-03-2019, 08:02 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 1,873
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melt in the Sun View Post
To close the loop for now - Alistair and I spoke today and I'll be shipping the guitar back to Ireland tomorrow, and so will have a week or two to decide what to do: have it repaired and shipped back to me, have a new/different one made, or just get a refund and move on with life. Right now, looking at this guitar just brings feelings of disappointment. Would that stick around after repair? I dunno. There are some beautiful veneers out there...

I've played my old Taylor more in the last week than in several months prior...and am reminded why I chose it in the first place. Maybe it just needs some TLC, it's overdue for a fret dress and could use a tweak to the neck angle. I could keep it, buy a used Rainsong to hang on the wall and beat up, and still come out way ahead cost-wise. Decisions are hard.

First world problems, for sure!
Sounds like you're looking for opinions so I'll give you my honest opinion on what I would do if I was you and just went through the same thing. I would ship that guitar back and let them fix it up and do whatever with it and get a new one built with another royal ebony veneer (my personal favorite). I would probably have some resentment against that particular guitar as well and getting a new one built will cure that issue but I would hate to see you take a refund and deprive yourself of an awesome Emerald guitar.
  #140  
Old 01-03-2019, 09:23 PM
gerardo1000 gerardo1000 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,448
Default

If I were on your place, I would consider two different options:
1) get a new X20 from Emerald, not the same one repaired.
2) Get a full refund, buy a Rainsong Hybrid dread for half the money, fix the frets and the neck angle on the Taylor, and put the rest of the money in the bank.

It all depends on how much you want an X20. You know how it sounds now, only you can decide.
  #141  
Old 01-03-2019, 10:16 PM
jdinco jdinco is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,398
Default

If you have some remorse on the money spent, why not a plain jane X20 in the color of your choice. About the same as a Rainsong $$$ wise.
__________________
John
  #142  
Old 01-03-2019, 11:37 PM
gerardo1000 gerardo1000 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,448
Default

I would not consider the option of having the guitar repaired. A guitar with so many repairs, even if well done, is still a guitar with many repairs. In my opinion the buyer should choose between a full refund or a brand new guitar.

Last edited by Kerbie; 07-11-2019 at 07:51 PM. Reason: Deleted reference
  #143  
Old 01-04-2019, 01:58 AM
121 121 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New England
Posts: 866
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melt in the Sun View Post
Just another note - Alistair was right about the truss rod. A little more pushing and wiggling got the wrench further I to the hole, and I was able to tighten the rod. It's way down there!

One of my Emeralds had the same issue.
It should not have taken so much effort to fit the allen wrench in the wrenching of the truss rod.
After the first successful use, the allen wrench now fits smoothly.
__________________
Emerald
2016 X7
2017 X20
2018 X30
And four all
laminate wood
acoustic guitars

Last edited by 121; 01-04-2019 at 04:27 AM.
  #144  
Old 01-04-2019, 06:33 AM
DoryDavis DoryDavis is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 990
Default

If the OP still wants one of these guitars, he is in a good position. Well the best position would be to be playing one right now with no flaws that he is happy with.
But now, if he gets a new one, obviously it will be checked and re-checked and good to go.

If there is a long wait, to me, it feels as if there should be a substantial discount. The OP sent thousands of dollars in good faith, and so far has suffered disappointment, stress, and time passing without his dream guitar, none of it the fault of his own.

I hope that, because of what happened he gets
1.) A new and perfect guitar
2.) A discount to compensate for time/worry/frustration
3.) A delivery as quick as possible and still maintain total quality

In other words, this (new) guitar should go to first in line at the shop. Guitars for other people should not be being made in front of someone who has already bought theirs.
In no way would I consider taking a repaired guitar. The mojo is bad on that one. Just mho. Sounds like it is all going to be made right from what I've read from Emerald here.
__________________
D.D.
  #145  
Old 01-04-2019, 07:54 AM
Kindness Kindness is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,137
Default

Just my two cents.

I think to expect a custom guitar to be made and delivered quickly is not realistic. IMHO, I think that the process that Alistair has is far more difficult than what a wood luthier deals with. I think there has to be a realistic expectation that a custom Emerald guitar is not a production guitar and that one just has to be patient.

I am sure with patience and time, a brand new guitar will be delivered and the owner will be all smiles!
__________________
Lisa

Phoenix Guitar Co. Custom Classical Guitar
Rainsong Shorty FLE
Pre Peavey Cargo
  #146  
Old 01-04-2019, 08:01 AM
Jim K Jim K is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 187
Default

This response from Alistair is why I own three Emeralds !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistair Hay View Post
Hi Guys
Im sorry it took a few days to respond to this issue but as was mentioned we were closed until today so Im only getting up to speed on this situation now.
Im very disappointed that a guitar went out with these collective issues and ultimately the buck stops with me. I personally do a quality check on every guitar where I check the nut height, neck relief, action height, play every note for fret buzz, check fret ends, check cosmetics and check pickup balance and function.
Its always possible that I missed some of these details during the check or I missed checking it completely but either way I take full responsibility.
Let me discuss each issue and explain how they could come to happen and how they should have been resolved.
1) Fret marker off line… The Fret markers are inserted into holes drilled by hand on the side of the fretboard, sometimes while drilling the drill bit can wander a little as it finds a slightly more dense area in the laminate. We Do our best to avoid this by drilling a much smaller pilot hole first and then widening. If we have an error to the magnitude shown on the 24th fret marker it should be filled and redrilled. Ultimately this was neglected at the time of installation and I probably didn’t notice this as its very uncommon.

2) Dent under 24th fret…. Sometimes during curing we can get some unevenness and shrinkage in the fretboard surface, We can allow a small unevenness that can be sanded out during profiling but if it is too much like what is seen here it should go back to be resurfaced which didn’t happen in this case.

3) Uneven finish on fretboard….. After profiling we sand the fretboard with 600 grit sand paper and lightly buff. This should result in an even finish but during cleaning of the fretboard and polishing frets the surface needs re buffed. It looks like that wasn’t carried out here to even out the finish.

4) Unfinished frets….. This possibly is the most concerning and puzzling thing. We do a full level on our frets and spend a lot of time to get them both even and looking right. After levelling they are recrowned, sanded with 3 grits of sand paper and machine polished. From the pictures it looks like they were levelled and the next steps were missed.

5) Veneer placement and finish…… We cut the veneer very carefully by hand using a scalpel and it is then placed into the mould during the moulding process and great care is taken to make sure that everything lines up perfectly. Its a tricky business and getting a perfect transition between the veneer and carbon can be tough. Any small discrepancies are usually taken care of during painting. The outline of black you see is defined during masking and spraying of the bridge and fretboard edge. This could certainly have been a little more delicately done.

6) Truss rod stripped….. I would be very surprised if the truss rod is in fact stripped as I haven’t seen that happen before. The truss rod access is however inside a metal sleeve and I think what you are seeing is the outer sleeve and the allen key isnt actually being inserted deep enough into the hole to engage it.

It would be my feeling that during setup this guitar was set aside to have work done and somehow made its way to dispatch instead. Im really sorry about this error but of course as always we will stand over this 100% and make it right.
I spent quite a while reading through this thread and I can understand all the concerns and questions raised.
Just to bring some clarity to our current situation here are a few other points.
We have seen a big increase in sales and manufacturing over the past few years and I have always been very mindful of quality and finding the right people at the right time to help us grow and get better. We currently build 15 guitars per week and employ 14 people. We are currently locked into 15 guitars per week for the next 9 months and will be focusing on refinement and quality this year rather than expansion.
While we strive for perfection the truth is that is an unattainable goal but good enough is never good enough unless we are always improving. I can say hand on heart that our quality in 2018 was our best so far but 2019 will be better.
If a customer has an issue we will always assist in resolving the problem. We dont actually have a facility to have a guitar collected from your door but if you can work with us and take it to USPS we will then refund the $90 -$100 return shipping.
On the issue of whether this should have been discussed only in private well actually I have no problem with people discussing our failings. We love it when you share stories of how well we do and that inspires us and drives us. It is only right that you can discuss when we get it wrong. That also keeps us in check and motivates us to constantly improve.
This morning I had a meeting with our whole team where we put the pictures up on the big screen and discussed what went wrong and how we can ensure it doesn’t happen again. We take these issues very seriously as we have built a reputation on quality and customer service and thats a reputation we wont let slip.
I hope I have answered all the questions brought up here but if any others arise or I missed any then please ask again and I will check back in.

Alistair Hay
  #147  
Old 01-04-2019, 08:49 AM
DoryDavis DoryDavis is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 990
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindness View Post
Just my two cents.

I think to expect a custom guitar to be made and delivered quickly is not realistic. IMHO, I think that the process that Alistair has is far more difficult than what a wood luthier deals with. I think there has to be a realistic expectation that a custom Emerald guitar is not a production guitar and that one just has to be patient.

I am sure with patience and time, a brand new guitar will be delivered and the owner will be all smiles!
Lisa, if you are referring to my email, I never said quickly, I said as quick as possible and still maintain quality. I agree, these guitars, by definition, certainly take more time to construct.
Strange impact of this thread, I am becoming interested in these guitars- always had a passing interest, but now increased.
__________________
D.D.
  #148  
Old 01-04-2019, 08:53 AM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Arizona (from island boy to desert dweller)
Posts: 6,970
Default

While we all have an opinion about how the situation should be handled, it is between the OP and Alistair, and the OP has already stated that he is taking that discussion direct. I feel for both. Whatever decision gets made between the two will be the right one.
  #149  
Old 01-04-2019, 08:59 AM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Idaho
Posts: 10,982
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melt in the Sun View Post
Just another note - Alistair was right about the truss rod. A little more pushing and wiggling got the wrench further I to the hole, and I was able to tighten the rod. It's way down there!
That was the case too with my X30. The double-action truss rod needed some adjustment to add more relief and it took (surprisingly) a 5/32" Allen key, and that was still tight. I really expected a metric size, coming from across the pond. I have full sets of both metric and SAE sizes, and that was the one that worked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarLuva View Post
Just curious who here suggested that he send it back for repair?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistair Hay View Post
.....this will be entirely up to the owner. We can fix every issue 100% but the decision lies with the owner.
Alistair himself offered up the return/rework option to the OP, clearly stating that every issue could be fixed. If I especially liked that particular piece of veneer better, that would be the only option - it cannot be reused. So the questions are:
- can the owner let go of the history?
- is he willing to wait for the repairs?

Last edited by Kerbie; 07-11-2019 at 07:52 PM. Reason: Deleted a quote
  #150  
Old 01-04-2019, 09:53 AM
Guest 928
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

There's another option yet to be considered. In the old days, Alistair would take his experimental failures and nail them to the ceiling. I relate to that, in the old days I would simply burn my wooden sculptures that did not meet my standards. Alistair could screw this guitar to the ceiling as a constant reminder that quality requires constant vigilance. It would be an expensive reminder, a high priced tuition for a hard lesson.
Closed Thread

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Carbon Fiber

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=