Smart Phone silliness

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by imwjl

I'm lost on your and others' often bringing up "reality". How is improved communication and productivity something outside of reality?

I see the network traffic, and app use for for up to hundreds of smart phones a day. It's not all Facebook and TikTok. That's staff on break time, customers in cafes, and grocery shoppers.

We sure have people with poor habits and some dangers with the phone use but my whole life has been seeing some who just can't manage their time, behavior, substances, tingly parts and devices. The world isn't going to heck as so many think. We mostly improve. Are you thinking we should be back in an economy where my town has lectors and lamplighters? I doubt that will happen.

As I said, I was not passing judgement, or saying that we need to turn the clock back. We seem to be going where we are going, and let's just keep our fingers crossed about the destination. What I would say is that perhaps too little thought has been given as to what that destination entails.

I also did not want to suggest that what is out there is 'outside of reality.' I think it is a different reality, and we all now, to varying degrees, inhabit this 'other' reality with increasing regularity. For many, however, that other reality seems inextricably enmeshed with the here-and-now reality that was once the dominant force in almost everyone's lives. For many (most?) travel, for example, is only worthwhile because the traveler can stand inside this other reality, reach to people they don't know 'out there,' and share their travel experience with them. People do not go to Italy to sail down the Grand Canal in Venice for the pure moment of doing so; they do it so that the world can see them sailing down the Grand Canal and, presumably, living an amazing life in doing so. They cannot connect with the mystery and wonder of the experience without invisible multitudes, and themselves, watching them connect with the mystery and wonder of it all. Amazing to think that in all the travels I went on in the 80s, I never even bothered to take a camera! People once did not think of travel in the same way.

There are countless other such experiences that become similarly distributed and recorded through phones, one being concerts or performances. I remember an incident that was discussed here around 10 years ago where Peter Frampton took an audience member's phone and threw it away in sheer frustration at the audience not watching and listening to the concert, but using phones as an intermediary for some kind of vicarious gratification, not only for others not at the concert but for the concert-goers themselves. The concert itself was not the 'thing'; what mattered was the verification of the experience to the world and the person themselves that something worthwhile was happening.

I sometimes wonder if large numbers of people would actually do anything remarkable if they couldn't broadcast the experience to people they barely know, without screen evidence of themselves having a profound experience. In fact, can the experience even be said to have happened if it is not recorded and broadcast through a phone? It may well be that without the validation of phone activation, the experience cannot truly have any impact or even be alleged to have truly happened. "Pictures or it didn't happen" we often hear on this forum in relation to new guitars. That goes way beyond the ownership of some enviable guitar.

We are moving into unknown territory, I think. People might say, well, it's just the same as TV was for previous generations, but it's not. Few people were able to put a TV in their pockets.

[619TF]

Ah yes, the old "pictures or it didn't happen" trope. One of the dumbest statements ever AFAIC. After all, photography is only about 100 years old and clearly most of human history pre-dates that. To say nothing happened before/without pictures is moronic and a denial of fact. Probably invented by those who can't read.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by ewalling

As I said, I was not passing judgement, or saying that we need to turn the clock back. We seem to be going where we are going, and let's just keep our fingers crossed about the destination. What I would say is that perhaps too little thought has been given as to what that destination entails.

I also did not want to suggest that what is out there is 'outside of reality.' I think it is a different reality, and we all now, to varying degrees, inhabit this 'other' reality with increasing regularity. For many, however, that other reality seems inextricably enmeshed with the here-and-now reality that was once the dominant force in almost everyone's lives. For many (most?) travel, for example, is only worthwhile because the traveler can stand inside this other reality, reach to people they don't know 'out there,' and share their travel experience with them. People do not go to Italy to sail down the Grand Canal in Venice for the pure moment of doing so; they do it so that the world can see them sailing down the Grand Canal and, presumably, living an amazing life in doing so. They cannot connect with the mystery and wonder of the experience without invisible multitudes, and themselves, watching them connect with the mystery and wonder of it all. Amazing to think that in all the travels I went on in the 80s, I never even bothered to take a camera! People once did not think of travel in the same way.

There are countless other such experiences that become similarly distributed and recorded through phones, one being concerts or performances. I remember an incident that was discussed here around 10 years ago where Peter Frampton took an audience member's phone and threw it away in sheer frustration at the audience not watching and listening to the concert, but using phones as an intermediary for some kind of vicarious gratification, not only for others not at the concert but for the concert-goers themselves. The concert itself was not the 'thing'; what mattered was the verification of the experience to the world and the person themselves that something worthwhile was happening.

I sometimes wonder if large numbers of people would actually do anything remarkable if they couldn't broadcast the experience to people they barely know, without screen evidence of themselves having a profound experience. In fact, can the experience even be said to have happened if it is not recorded and broadcast through a phone? It may well be that without the validation of phone activation, the experience cannot truly have any impact or even be alleged to have truly happened. "Pictures or it didn't happen" we often hear on this forum in relation to new guitars. That goes way beyond the ownership of some enviable guitar.

We are moving into unknown territory, I think. People might say, well, it's just the same as TV was for previous generations, but it's not. Few people were able to put a TV in their pockets.

With late age parent status, my involvement in a big youth organization and 500+ young first line workers where my job is I do not and cannot agree with many common thoughts about the youth and the future.

[Birdbrain]

Originally Posted by difalkner

I upgraded from my 5-year old iPhone 6S to the 12 Pro Max last year specifically for the better camera. The 6S was requiring charging twice each day and I didn't really want to replace the battery.

I do a lot of photo/video in my woodshop and it was either upgrade my phone or buy a better digital camera. Since my digital camera works just fine like it is then we decided to upgrade my phone. Phone calls and texts are the same but the camera is phenomenal on the new phone!

I too stepped up to the upgrade path two weeks ago, after the microphone wasn't picking up my voice when I laid the phone on the desk in front of me. I hadn't planned to upgrade. There were just three monthly payments left on my iPhone 11. Here's what happened next:

1) I was offered $400 credit for my scratched iPhone, towards a $900 replacement
2) My monthly bill actually went down by about 15 bucks. My $35 payment for the new phone will continue for another three years, but the lower bill pays about half of that
3) The new phone works better in every way. Brighter screen, louder speakers, and the battery lasts all day, not all hour.
4) The most unexpected thing- my car works better. The Ford SYNC system is known for problems with slow, laggy response to inputs. Daily while switching between NPR stations at the low end of the FM band, I've been stuck for a minute or two on religious programming in between. The usual fix for this issue is to open the dash and replace a computer module, for $1200 all in. I was close to doing that, but I got a phone instead. The iPhone 13 seems to have eliminated this problem. Yesterday, the car read out an incoming text to me for the first time in three years! The radio responds promptly to control inputs even though the phone plays no apparent role in the process.

A lot of us Boomers grew up with conservative financial advice from parents, grandparents, or, in the worst case, debt counselors. "If you can't pay for it now, don't buy it." "Mending is better than ending." "Get the cheapest tool for the job." That's what I do most of the time, but some deals are too good to pass up.

In 2017 I bought a Plug-In Hybrid car new, with nothing down, on a six-year loan. Was that a mistake? Dave Ramsey would say so. But the loan had zero interest, so I was playing with the house's money. I could use $9007 in tax credits to pay off a higher-interest car loan early. This Ford has been trouble-free; at 60,000 miles, I just paid $150 for the first non-maintenance repair. It's worth at least 3/4 of the net $20K price I paid, and any new replacement would cost at least $30K, if I could find one in stock. Oh, and it's gotten 66 miles per gallon overall. I couldn't afford to not buy this car!

I have yet to find a situation here I could apply this buying logic to guitars, alas!

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Birdbrain

1) I was offered $400 credit for my scratched iPhone, towards a $900 replacement
2) My monthly bill actually went down by about 15 bucks. My $35 payment for the new phone will continue for another three years, but the lower bill pays about half of that

That just goes to show to what extent they'd been milking you... but AFAICT you'll still be paying $1260 for the phone. I'd be surprised if you couldn't have obtained a possibly even larger cut in contract cost by changing formula without getting an overpriced brandnew phone (but e.g. a refurbished older model). This gadgets aren't exactly without ecological impact ...

Originally Posted by ewalling

I think this may be one feature that technophiles say little about: the effect the phone may have on what a human being actually is or is becoming, and the world(s) it inhabits. The phone, as I see it, may be a gateway to an entirely different creature, and I wonder if we have fully considered whether this is a creature we really want to be.

+++

Somebody should do an updated homunculus cartoon ...

[Birdbrain]

I do appreciate your environmental concerns, but I don't expect my old phone to be destroyed. If I was paid $400 for it, someone's going to earn that back. Probably it will get a new screen and battery and be sold in some international cut-rate marketplace. I don't have the time and interest to search for the absolute lowest-price here. I'm on a family plan with two others. This iPhone 13 gives me significantly improved functionality. It's already saved me $1200 in car repairs, as I wrote.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by RJVB

That just goes to show to what extent they'd been milking you... but AFAICT you'll still be paying $1260 for the phone. I'd be surprised if you couldn't have obtained a possibly even larger cut in contract cost by changing formula without getting an overpriced brandnew phone (but e.g. a refurbished older model). This gadgets aren't exactly without ecological impact ...



+++

Somebody should do an updated homunculus cartoon ...

In the US the pricing for first tier phones and networks are all close. The business discounting is pretty fair with Apple and less consistent with other products.

The environmental impact is part of our getting Apple products when it's a good choice. That's the products them selves via their recycling and recycled content and the lifespan we've been able to get.

We get harassed by our choices and environmental impact but in reality are excellent among our peers. We concentrate on sourcing and selling food items that don't travel more than 300 miles farm to store. We run a small chain of stores on renewable utility programs from 3 different utilities, and I've posted here about our off grid vehicle charging. The company's first electric truck arrives soon and we've had electric cars, SUVs and hybrids.

I get the humor of your graphics but I'm a boomer where TV or a handheld screen didn't make me the same overweight and sedentary. It's not everyone but it's a lot. A lot of ill opinion on today's kids is inappropriate.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Birdbrain

I do appreciate your environmental concerns, but I don't expect my old phone to be destroyed. If I was paid $400 for it, someone's going to earn that back. [...] This iPhone 12 [...] already save me $1200, as I wrote.

I didn't doubt your old phone would be recycled, but you got a new phone which wasn't.

I also saved 1200 on my car ... by deciding to do without airco for the remaining years she'll run and I'm allowed to use her ... sadly I won't get 15 off my mobile subscription (or else they'd be paying me to stay with them) O:-)

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by ewalling

As I said, I was not passing judgement, or saying that we need to turn the clock back. We seem to be going where we are going, and let's just keep our fingers crossed about the destination. ....

...We are moving into unknown territory, I think. People might say, well, it's just the same as TV was for previous generations, but it's not. Few people were able to put a TV in their pockets.

2G-3G-4G-5G-Sentience.
There's a reason they called it Android.

[KevWind]

Interesting discussion on Reality and how people might be dealing with a different reality because of Tech. Which no doubt has some elements of truth to it.
But for example the idea that teenagers sit in class and some or many, are disconnected from being fully present in the classroom learning reality .... WHAT ?? as if that came along with the cell phone ? Sorry that notion is a fairly large disconnect from reality

Sorry but other than the obvious tactile and in person viewing advantage ,,,going out to shop, is no more connected to reality than shopping on line, it is simply different way to shop but is the same "reality"


The supreme irony being of course being that the supposed "the hear and now reality" in one sense is not actually reality at all.. it is simply being present in the moment Because at the sub atomic level the "supposed hear and now" of what we can observe with our eyes and ears as being "our reality", is actually a very different "reality" than the reality of what is going on at Sub atomic level,,,, which is arguably "THE Reality" and what we observe as reality is actually a type of illusion ????????????????????????... Just a thought

[foxo]

I recommend switching to Tesco Mobile Andy. Their customer service is UK based which is a big plus (although I have only needed to phone them once in seven years) and they never try to sell me anything. Just good hassle free service.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by foxo

I recommend switching to Tesco Mobile Andy. Their customer service is UK based which is a big plus (although I have only needed to phone them once in seven years) and they never try to sell me anything. Just good hassle free service.

Well, there a comment that I understand! thanks Neil!.

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by KevWind

The supreme irony being of course being that the supposed "the hear and now reality" in one sense is not actually reality at all.. it is simply being present in the moment Because at the sub atomic level the "supposed hear and now" of what we can observe with our eyes and ears as being "our reality", is actually a very different "reality" than the reality of what is going on at Sub atomic level,,,, which is arguably "THE Reality" and what we observe as reality is actually a type of illusion ????????????????????????... Just a thought

MAKE IT STOP!

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Well, there a comment that I understand! thanks Neil!.

If customer service matters to you stay away from Three. When my contract was about to end they sent me a letter telling me that if I did nothing my contract would renew after it's expiration date. It took 40minutes on chat for their representative to finally accept that I was thoroughly sick of Three and their inability to create a properly functioning user interface and so did not want my contract to renew, even then I was told that I had to give a months notice to 'leave' despite being days away from the end of my 2 year contract.
Once they get their claws in you they don't let go easily.

[RJVB]

Re: environmental impact:

Originally Posted by Johannes Wild

The materials and energy that go into today's smartphones, among other electronics, are catastrophic relative to their current lifespan. Even doubling the current lifespan—while obviously desirable and beneficial—would not be sufficient given the urgency of the climate crisis. The Right to Repair Coalition calls for a ten-year lifespan for smartphones.

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