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Old 10-16-2020, 08:43 AM
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Default New mic position part 2 - thoughts?

Hi all



Following my last post on this subject I have been experimenting with some alternative mic placements - this one is per the attached pics, with left mic pointing around 12th fret and right mic over right shoulder.



I found a very old thread that ran a few pages from 8 years or so ago and it made for interesting reading - I certainly liked the sound Derek got in his recording using a broadly similar set up although there was quite a mixed opinion with Doug not ever finding this set up to his liking.



I quite liked the results I got - I found it to be warm and natural sounding without losing significant stereo width, which was my concern.



I have posted two files, one with reverb and one without (The Stephen Wake version on which this is based uses a fair bit)



Love to know your thoughts (I have tried to make sure the lower mids are clean as I know if they're not then Aloha Chris will come find me and it won't be pretty ;-)









IMG_1641.jpgIMG_1644.jpg
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Old 10-16-2020, 08:57 AM
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Both recordings have a "fuller" sound than some of your recent postings on soundcloud. The nearest to it is your "Celandine CM4 Clean" of your recent five or six postings.

Can you play the same tune with the same guitar and use a spaced pair in front for comparison?

I like it enough to try it myself one day. Whether I use a LDC, SDC or a ribbon is now on my mind too,
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Old 10-16-2020, 09:44 AM
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Sounds good.

I'm curious [too] why this sounds markedly different from putting that over the shoulder mic simply in front of the guitar, aimed at the about the same spot in the lower bout, and at the same distance. Is the the floor or rug?

I'd be afraid I'd get too much sniffling and huffing and puffing in that mic
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Old 10-16-2020, 10:09 AM
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Good results. I think the next step would be some more room treatment to help clear up the definition of the low and low mid frequencies some more.
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Old 10-16-2020, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Good results. I think the next step would be some more room treatment to help clear up the definition of the low and low mid frequencies some more.


Thanks Derek, current treatment is per pic below;

2 large 1.4 x 1.4m panels on each wall into the corner I face
4 x 60 x 60 panels sitting on top of them
2 x 1.2 x 0.6 panels behind the mics

What else would you recommend I consider to achieve better low/mid clarity?

IMG_1647.jpg
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:12 PM
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As far as acoustics probably mainly could just use more space between you and the absorption stuff (what are those?). Perhaps a couple corner bass traps and less of the thinner panels. Sounds like the treble absorbed a little too much and the base not enough. Being picky though as the sound is very nice as is.
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Old 10-16-2020, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
As far as acoustics probably mainly could just use more space between you and the absorption stuff (what are those?). Perhaps a couple corner bass traps and less of the thinner panels. Sounds like the treble absorbed a little too much and the base not enough. Being picky though as the sound is very nice as is.


The red ones are commercial panels I picked up from a studio (not easy to get home..

The black ones I made myself with Rockwool - both small and large.

Iím about 1.5m from the red ones and place the tall black ones directly behind the mics (maybe not necessary)

Agree with you re both trebles and bass..
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Old 10-16-2020, 02:07 PM
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The reverb seems to have muddied up the track a bit which makes me wonder how you applied it. Did you put it directly on the track or on an aux track? Did you apply any filters to the reverb?
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Old 10-16-2020, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
The reverb seems to have muddied up the track a bit which makes me wonder how you applied it. Did you put it directly on the track or on an aux track? Did you apply any filters to the reverb?


The reverb is on an aux bus dialled back 10db and with a high and low pass filter applied.
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Old 10-16-2020, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
The reverb seems to have muddied up the track a bit which makes me wonder how you applied it. Did you put it directly on the track or on an aux track? Did you apply any filters to the reverb?
Not really a need for an aux track on a solo instrument recording. The sound would come out the same.
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Old 10-16-2020, 02:34 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Not really a need for an aux track on a solo instrument recording. The sound would come out the same.
How do you apply filters to just the reverb if you put it on the actual track?
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Old 10-16-2020, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
How do you apply filters to just the reverb if you put it on the actual track?
Just sequence effects. That's what you are going to end up with anyway.
Example of a typical sequence I may use:
Volume balance, equalization, reverb. Many plugins are very flexible for
adjustments for a stereo track. Several reverbs have their own internal
equalizers and delay settings for the wet signal.

I can see using aux tracks for dealing with multiple sound sources of course.
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Old 10-16-2020, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Just sequence effects. That's what you are going to end up with anyway.
Example of a typical sequence I may use:
Volume balance, equalization, reverb. Many plugins are very flexible for
adjustments for a stereo track. Several reverbs have their own internal
equalizers and delay settings for the wet signal.

I can see using aux tracks for dealing with multiple sound sources of course.
I never record solo acoustic so I've never thought about doing it that way.
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Old 10-16-2020, 03:04 PM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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Because I strived for my recordings to better capture the sound I hear when I play, I would position both small-diaphragm, matched microphones near my ears when I used to record.
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Old 10-16-2020, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
How do you apply filters to just the reverb if you put it on the actual track?
If for example you're simply using a high pass (just to tame some rumble say 70 Hz down ) it probably does not make much difference ?

But interestingly enough on the Waves web sight under "Reverb mixing tips" they state :

"2. Inserts vs. Send/Return
Inserting a reverb plugin directly to an audio track is the quickest way to add a reverb effect, but greatly limits your ability to process the source audio and reverb effect independently"



And myself for the acoustic guitar as well as vocals . I like the "Abby Road reverb method" of EQ -ing the reverb with significant filter roll off (12 -18 db) from 600Hz down and from 6kHz to 8kHz and up, which to my ear cleans up the reverb effect considerably ,,,,,,,,, and in which case you do want it on an Aux track. And then given the current DAW situation and with templates for sessions/projects, I can't think a practical or logistical reason to not use, an Aux track ?
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