#1
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New to recording - boomy bass with fretted notes
Hi, I’m just getting back into recording after many years away - so many that the whole digital thing is pretty new to me. Running protools twelve and have at my disposal a Neumann tlm193, at2020 , sm57, and just picked up a groove tubes gt55 - was cheap and came highly recommended. I’m experimenting with placing multiple mics, as well as running direct to my interface as I’m putting delay on a lot of my tracks. I’d be interested in any general advice on mic placement, but more specifically also how to avoid a phenomenon that I’m running into with all my mics as well as direct- when I have everything placed for a good but not boomy level of bass on open strings (a lot of drop d), I’m getting way more boominess with fretted notes, particularly up at the 10th fret on the sixth string. This is pretty consistent- any remedies? I’m having the most success avoiding it with the sm57, but it’s still there. Trying to avoid pointing at the sound hole, angling up toward the fretboard, etc....
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#2
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All of your mics have a cardioid polar pattern. Cardiod pattern mics exhibit a phenomena known as "proximity effect". Basically, as the mic gets closer to the source the bass frequencies' volume increases more than higher frequencies. This might be what you are experiencing, although given that you are only hearing heightened response on the upper frets of the bass strings, perhaps not.
Simple experiment: Move your mic(s) back another 12" to 18" or so and see if those notes diminish in relative amplitude. |
#3
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Also, aiming the mic approximately where the neck and body meet is a good starting point for eliminating the boomy sound. In addition, I know the 57 doesn’t have a high pass filter, but do either of the other mics let you roll off low frequency say around 100 hz?
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‘97 Taylor 555 12 string ‘17 Martin HD 28 ‘19 Martin CEO 9 ‘20 Gibson 1960 Hummingbird reissue ‘16 Gibson Hummingbird Avant Guard (gigging guitar) Note to self: Never play a guitar you aren’t willing to buy. |
#4
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Upper frets on the sixth string tend to be boomy on many guitars. Have a friend play those notes while you are close in front of the guitar about where you have placed the mike(s) and find out if you hear that.
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#5
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I'm pretty sure the only mic he has with a high pass filter is the gt55 which starts reducing at 75hz.
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Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |
#6
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Yeah, no high pass filters. Maybe on the groove tube, as it’s not in my hands yet. I know I guy that gets really great sounding recordings with two of them, so I’m hopeful.
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#7
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As mentioned above, if you have been close-miking, move the mic off to about 12". Have you tried a different guitar?
It could also be a room resonance issue if you are not close miking.
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Mike My music: https://mikebirchmusic.bandcamp.com 2020 Taylor 324ceBE 2017 Taylor 114ce-N 2012 Taylor 310ce 2011 Fender CD140SCE Ibanez 12 string a/e 73(?) Epiphone 6830E 6 string 72 Fender Telecaster Epiphone Dot Studio Epiphone LP Jr Chinese Strat clone Kala baritone ukulele Seagull 'Merlin' Washburn Mandolin Luna 'tatoo' a/e ukulele antique banjolin Squire J bass |
#8
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I’ve tried moving the mics further away, but too far and the sound gets tinny, as well as picking up a lot of room noise. Maybe 12-18” would be a good compromise. Also, yeah I wonder if the room is contributing. Even when going direct from my delay to the interface, that 10th fret on the sixth string is boomier than elsewhere on the neck.
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#9
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Besides mic placement etc.
If it were me, I would put the stock PT 7 band EQ on every guitar track even if only to use the high pass (low cut) filter set to a steep rolloff 12 -18 db per octave from about say 40-60 or 80 maybe 100 depending on specific guitar and where the boom is actually happening Hz adjust to taste until boom is gone. If it is at a higher frequency then you can use one of the other bands with narrow Q centered on the most noticeable frequency of the boom. Try not placing delays (or any time domain FX) on multiple tracks ( unless for desired intentional affect you specifically want different delay times in different tracks) Instead consider placing the delay on a Aux track set the Aux track output fader to 0 (unity gain) , run the delay at 100% wet, and send form the guitar tracks to that aux/delay track , and control the amount of effect by lowering the individual guitar tracks send fader.
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1 Last edited by KevWind; 07-23-2019 at 08:26 AM. |
#10
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*You can use eq to roll off some bottom end as KevWind suggested. That might fix it by itself but you may find that you're left with thinner or tinnier sounding tracks that will need further EQing (if you make put a downloadable wav file of one of your guitar recordings online somewhere, perhaps some of us might take a shot at EQing it so you have some sense of what can be done). *If you feel moving the mics back is giving you too much room sound, you might purchase or build some gobos to control what is coming back to your microphone. *If none of that works, you might want to invest in microphones designed to be forgiving for close proximity recording ...something like the Gefell M295.
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Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |
#11
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Part of the trouble with "boom" of any sort is time, not just frequencies. If a room isn't treated to absorb those low and low-mid frequencies, they linger long after the upper mids and highs have decayed. And the size and design of many guitars exacerbates this -- if you think about it, they're little wooden "rooms" devised to project and reinforce size and warmth. Which your ear finds to be in reasonable proportion, but your microphone doesn't.
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#12
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Thanks everyone. My EQing and protools skills are super basic/nonexistent at this point, so sorry for the dumb questions. I can definitely kill the low frequencies with the stock eq plugin, but how do I identify and isolate a specific frequency? Seems like there are only a few set frequencies to be adjusted in the 7 band plugin. Also, when I have just cut the low frequencies to make the problematic parts of the song sound better, the other parts (with open bass notes for instance) sound too thin. There must be a way to apply different eq settings to different parts of the same track, right?
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#13
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Barry Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}: My SoundCloud page Some steel strings, some nylon. |
#14
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Pro Tools EQ III |
#15
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__________________
Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |