DPA 4099 With Guitar Mounting Clip

[calvanesebob]

Looking for alternatives to pickup systems to use with my D-28 for recordings as well as open mic's. I could just throw a K&K mini in it for 100 bucks, but this looks very interesting. From the vid's I have watched it seems to capture the sound of instruments extremely well, and can be used live as well as recording. It can be used without any modifications to the guitar which I like too.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...-mounting-clip

I know it's very expensive, but you get what you pay for I guess.

Anyone use these in any capacity?

[Doug Young]

I have used them in the past, and still own one. There are a few fans here, I know. In my experience, there are pros and cons.

Pro:

Sounds great, similar to putting a good condenser mic in front of the guitar - which of course is what it is.

Lets you move around while using a mic

Because it's mounted to the guitar, you can mic really close, closer than you'd be able to with a stand-mounted mic, which gives you a bit more gain before feedback and a consistent sound.

You can share it between guitars.

Cons:

The mount isn't very stable. James Taylor Duct-tapes his on. Someone here on AGF created their own nifty mount that seemed better. I have lots of dents in the guitars I've used the 4099 one, as I'd try to tighten the mount enough to stay in place.

It's a mic - it will feedback unless conditions are right. It will also pick up pretty much everything else, your voice, other instruments, etc.

The cable is short and very thin, and unless you rig something up, it tends to come out of an awkward location and pull on that fairly flimsy clamp. Kind of gets in the way of the idea that you can move around with it.

For recording, I'd not really suggest this - it's attached to the guitar, and can pick up handling noises in spite of the shock mount, and your placement options are limited, which is one of the most critical factors in getting a good recording.


My view:

For me, the bottom line is that anywhere I could use the 4099, I could also use a stand-mounted mic, where I get to pick the mic and have more placement choices and don't have to deal with the wire and clamp. But I play seated, so the mobility aspect isn't a selling point. If you need to stand and move around while you play, that might change the equation.

[Ken Carr]

I own a DPA 4099g. My problem with it is you have to push up the gain so high it gets noisy. It sounds good, but the self noise is annoying.

[calvanesebob]

Thank you for the detailed reply Doug,

I ordered one from Sweetwater last night, so I have 30 days to return it if needed.

I have an SM57, SM58, and AKG C214, and can not seem to get placement right, but my room is very reflective, and I find it very inconvenient fiddling with mic placements, measuring distances, then trying to find that exact position I was just sitting in if I move in my chair for some reason.

I too play seated, but move around on my chair for several reasons, and that makes mic placement a pain in the butt... lol

I did read/watch several reviews, and am aware of the problems some people are having with the mount, but have not really seen anything about it denting guitars. I will definitely be careful and observant of that.

I have installed and used several pickup systems over the years and gravitate mainly towards the K&K pickups, but I want to leave this new D-28 as is with no modifications.

The DPA sounded amazing to me on every video I watched, and sounded just as good as well placed mics in a good room (at least to me).

I have an EV Evolve 30M and a focusrite 18i8 at home so I will be able to get a good idea of how this will work for me. I don't play professionally, and will only be using this for home recording, and maybe some open mic nights, so will never be in a full band situation.

Thanks again for the pro's and con's.

[calvanesebob]

Originally Posted by Ken Carr

I own a DPA 4099g. My problem with it is you have to push up the gain so high it gets noisy. It sounds good, but the self noise is annoying.

Can you tell me what setting you are playing in that you have to turn it up that high?

ie... full band situation, etc...?

Thanks,

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by calvanesebob

I have an SM57, SM58, and AKG C212, and can not seem to get placement right, but my room is very reflective, and I find it very inconvenient fiddling with mic placements, measuring distances, then trying to find that exact position I was just sitting in if I move in my chair for some reason.

You may like the DPA just because it lets you mic *really* close, which may help with your room acoustics problem, but the real solution (this comes up here every day...) is to fix the room acoustics. Even something as simple as a couple of portable panels can make a big difference. No one ever wants to do this - it's like telling people to eat their vegetables, and buying gear is always much sexier - but it's truly the thing that usually makes or breaks a recording.

Depending on your musical style, you may also want to record in stereo, which would mean 2 DPAs clamped to upper and lower bouts, I guess. I always prefer stereo to mono, unless I'm doing something like rhythm guitar in a full-band mix.

The thing with measuring and moving your chair is also an interesting topic. I found placement to be far less critical once I had good room acoustics and good mics. Previously with cheaper mics in an untreated room, mic placement seemed really complicated and finicky. Once my space was treated and I had good mics, basically they sounded good no matter where I put them. Then it was more a matter of fine tuning to taste.

As far as moving the chair, I just wouldn't do that between takes if you're trying to maintain a consistent sound. If it's just day-to-day for recording different things, it matters less. I don't generally measure anything, I just know roughly where to place the mics, and eye-ball 8-10 inches out, and watch my meters while making small adjustments (moving mics or chair) for level and stereo balance. With a bit of practice this shouldn't be too hard, you don't have to be *that* exact, especially if your room acoustics are under control. If you do want to be exact, there are easy ways to do it - I think I recall that Eric Skye used a chopstick to set the mic distance consistently between recording takes for his last CD, so he'd be consistent across tracks. Or tie a piece of string to the mic stand. Dial in a good sound once, then cut the string to the right length.

I don't know the AKG 212 - do you mean 214? If so, that mic should sound good, and you could put it more or less in the same place as the 4099. The 57s and 58s are less ideal for recording, tho some people do it successfully.

Let us know how the 4099 works for you. It should certainly be a step up over 57s and 58s. The main question is whether it's better for recording than other $600-ish condenser mics. Or if it matters if your room acoustics are the real issue.

[Al Acuff]

Originally Posted by calvanesebob

Looking for alternatives to pickup systems to use with my D-28 for recordings as well as open mic's. I could just throw a K&K mini in it for 100 bucks, but this looks very interesting. From the vid's I have watched it seems to capture the sound of instruments extremely well, and can be used live as well as recording. It can be used without any modifications to the guitar which I like too.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...-mounting-clip

I know it's very expensive, but you get what you pay for I guess.

Anyone use these in any capacity?

I bought this microphone when is first came out. My first impression was positive (compared to a built in pickup) but that was short lived. The mount is unstable, the mic is prone to feedback, the sound... it doesn't sound as good a microphone on a stand in front of the guitar. I sold my 4099 and never looked back.

If you want to try a mic that picks up less room as compared with the mics you already own then you could try a Beyerdynamic M201, or if you can afford one perhaps a Sennheiser 441.

[calvanesebob]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

You may like the DPA just because it lets you mic *really* close, which may help with your room acoustics problem, but the real solution (this comes up here every day...) is to fix the room acoustics. Even something as simple as a couple of portable panels can make a big difference. No one ever wants to do this - it's like telling people to eat their vegetables, and buying gear is always much sexier - but it's truly the thing that usually makes or breaks a recording.

Depending on your musical style, you may also want to record in stereo, which would mean 2 DPAs clamped to upper and lower bouts, I guess. I always prefer stereo to mono, unless I'm doing something like rhythm guitar in a full-band mix.

The thing with measuring and moving your chair is also an interesting topic. I found placement to be far less critical once I had good room acoustics and good mics. Previously with cheaper mics in an untreated room, mic placement seemed really complicated and finicky. Once my space was treated and I had good mics, basically they sounded good no matter where I put them. Then it was more a matter of fine tuning to taste.

As far as moving the chair, I just wouldn't do that between takes if you're trying to maintain a consistent sound. If it's just day-to-day for recording different things, it matters less. I don't generally measure anything, I just know roughly where to place the mics, and eye-ball 8-10 inches out, and watch my meters while making small adjustments (moving mics or chair) for level and stereo balance. With a bit of practice this shouldn't be too hard, you don't have to be *that* exact, especially if your room acoustics are under control. If you do want to be exact, there are easy ways to do it - I think I recall that Eric Skye used a chopstick to set the mic distance consistently between recording takes for his last CD, so he'd be consistent across tracks. Or tie a piece of string to the mic stand. Dial in a good sound once, then cut the string to the right length.

I don't know the AKG 212 - do you mean 214? If so, that mic should sound good, and you could put it more or less in the same place as the 4099. The 57s and 58s are less ideal for recording, tho some people do it successfully.

Let us know how the 4099 works for you. It should certainly be a step up over 57s and 58s. The main question is whether it's better for recording than other $600-ish condenser mics. Or if it matters if your room acoustics are the real issue.

Thanks again Doug. Yes, I meant 214 and have corrected it in my post.

For recording I just want minimal hassle, and don't really feel like making the room sound good, and having to pull the mics out and position them every time I get in the mood to do a recording. I'm just lazy that way... lol

Same with open mics, just want something I can clamp on the guitar and plug in. I don't play or sing loud, so I don't think feedback will ever be an issue. I have an LR Baggs M80 that I can put in the guitar and just run the chord out the front, and it sounds pretty good with this guitar too.

Thanks again, and I will let you know how I like it and post a sample clip here when I get it.

[calvanesebob]

Originally Posted by Al Acuff

I bought this microphone when is first came out. My first impression was positive (compared to a built in pickup) but that was short lived. The mount is unstable, the mic is prone to feedback, the sound... it doesn't sound as good a microphone on a stand in front of the guitar. I sold my 4099 and never looked back.

If you want to try a mic that picks up less room as compared with the mics you already own then you could try a Beyerdynamic M201, or if you can afford one perhaps a Sennheiser 441.

Well I already ordered it and it has shipped, and it should be here Wednesday. I have 30 days to decide weather I like it or not, so I'm gonna give it a fair chance.

I don't record a whole lot, but when I get the inspiration to do a quick recording, I just want something simple that I can just plug in and click the record button. Same with open mics. If this is something that I can get a good sound out of then I think it will be what I need for my use case.

If not, it will get returned, and I will look for another solution. Maybe one of those mics you mentioned.

Thanks for the input,

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by calvanesebob

I don't record a whole lot, but when I get the inspiration to do a quick recording, I just want something simple that I can just plug in and click the record button. ,

If speed and convenience is the overriding factor, I'd suggest looking into one of the small portable recorders, like a Zoom H2 or H4 (or even your phone with a mic attachment). Sit it on a table in front of you, hit record, and you'll get surprising good results.

I'm not actually sure an attachable mic reduces hassle at an open mic. The ones I know are set up for people to either sit down in front of a mic (already setup), or plugin with the cable they provide. You're going to hit them with the need for an XLR cable, phantom power, etc. You'd think that's no big deal, and probably isn't a lot of the time, but it's an extra step they don't have to do for others, and I've seen some Open Mic sound guys who'd be totally thrown off by something like that.

[guitarman68]

I used to own a 4099 back when they where new but never liked the clamp on guitar and mandolin - great on fiddle though.
If I would be in the market for an attached mic it would be the Bruce Bartlett guitar mic. I have the mandolin version and it sounds great, tried it on guitar with awesome results. Here is a link (they offer three different versions for guitar):
https://www.bartlettaudio.com/produc...hantom-powered

Nice: They are far less expensive compared to the DPA 4099.

[calvanesebob]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

If speed and convenience is the overriding factor, I'd suggest looking into one of the small portable recorders, like a Zoom H2 or H4 (or even your phone with a mic attachment). Sit it on a table in front of you, hit record, and you'll get surprising good results.

I'm not actually sure an attachable mic reduces hassle at an open mic. The ones I know are set up for people to either sit down in front of a mic (already setup), or plugin with the cable they provide. You're going to hit them with the need for an XLR cable, phantom power, etc. You'd think that's no big deal, and probably isn't a lot of the time, but it's an extra step they don't have to do for others, and I've seen some Open Mic sound guys who'd be totally thrown off by something like that.

Those are good points.

Hmmm... maybe I didn't think this through enough... hahaha

All the samples I listened to sounded surprisingly good, and I did read about some folks having trouble with the clip, but figured I would give it a try because of how good it sounded.

Aside from the clip thing everything else I read and heard seemed really good, but now I am beginning to think it's mostly bad.

Well, I can always return it. I think it's too late to cancel the order since it shipped already.

[Doug Young]

It's a very good solution for some situations, primarily for live use. It's a real mic, which is going to sound better than any pickup, for live use, as long as feedback and bleed isn't an issue. But like any piece of gear, it may or may not be the best option for your specific needs - it just depends. I still have mine, tho it hasn't come out of the drawer in probably 10 years, since it doesn't solve any problem I have. But you should try it, it may be exactly what you want.

[calvanesebob]

Originally Posted by guitarman68

I used to own a 4099 back when they where new but never liked the clamp on guitar and mandolin - great on fiddle though.
If I would be in the market for an attached mic it would be the Bruce Bartlett guitar mic. I have the mandolin version and it sounds great, tried it on guitar with awesome results. Here is a link (they offer three different versions for guitar):
https://www.bartlettaudio.com/produc...hantom-powered

Nice: They are far less expensive compared to the DPA 4099.

Thanks. That definitely looks interesting if this does not work out for me.

[calvanesebob]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

It's a very good solution for some situations, primarily for live use. It's a real mic, which is going to sound better than any pickup, for live use, as long as feedback and bleed isn't an issue. But like any piece of gear, it may or may not be the best option for your specific needs - it just depends. I still have mine, tho it hasn't come out of the drawer in probably 10 years, since it doesn't solve any problem I have. But you should try it, it may be exactly what you want.

Yeah, I'm definitely going to give it a fair try.

Thanks again,