Neck Reset on my Taylor 214ce-g

[rabbuhl]

Originally Posted by Blueser100

I'm confused as to why the body of the guitar was replaced??

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=514764

[rabbuhl]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

I have reset a few of these Taylor NT necks, and it is not rocket surgery. Making shims is basic to the craft (I am not Taylor authorized). That said, the best tech in the world is shooting in the dark if exact information about the desired action is lacking. Communication is key. What one player considers 'high action' is not gospel.

I've been dealing with the action for a long time. Here is a post from 2015.
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=370163

I did not measure the action on my 214ce before it went for a neck reset. Afterwards it "seemed" to be better but I am not 100% sure. There is some room for it to be a little bit lower. Then the action would be similar to a used Eastman which I played a while back and a Fender Paramount PM-TE I played last week.

It is confusing so I called Taylor today about lower action. They said it should be 6/64 (low e) and 4/64 (high e) at the 12th fret. Anything other than that is a non-standard setup and would cost extra. Is there some reason that a Taylor acoustic cannot be setup with lower action. It seems impossible without getting into this endless loop about shims!!

[Earl49]

Sure you can get a lower action than 6/64" and 4/64". Those are just Taylor's factory specs for the average guitar, that also happen to suit most players. I'm sure that many here have had custom setups done that now have lower action values like 5/64" bass and 3/64" treble. Get much lower and you will fight buzzing at frets.

Once the neck angle and relief are set properly, and the nut slots are the correct depth for easy play on the first 4-5 frets, then the saddle can be sanded down to get the action you want. If you wish to lower by 1/64" at the twelfth fret, the saddle has to be sanded down by 2/64" (also known as 1/32"). From personal experience making my own adjustments, I always recommend keeping the original saddle and making all modifications to a new blank. Then you can easily go back where you started.

[mirwa]

Taylor has warranty action heights, this is a nice height for any player, they wear this cost on new guitars or guitars in the warranty period which have not been worked on by others.

The neck or saddle can be adjusted for a lower action if you wish, but not under warranty

Steve

[rabbuhl]

Originally Posted by mirwa

Taylor has warranty action heights, this is a nice height for any player, they wear this cost on new guitars or guitars in the warranty period which have not been worked on by others.

The neck or saddle can be adjusted for a lower action if you wish, but not under warranty

Steve

The tech at the local shop said to bring it in again. He adjusted the truss rood which lowered the action.

[fazool]

There is a tremendous amount of misinformation in this thread.

Instead of asking strangers (who are well intentioned but misinformed) you should call Taylor. They have excellent phone support.

[rabbuhl]

Originally Posted by fazool

There is a tremendous amount of misinformation in this thread.

Instead of asking strangers (who are well intentioned but misinformed) you should call Taylor. They have excellent phone support.

Check earlier post. I did call Taylor.

[redir]

Originally Posted by rabbuhl

I've been dealing with the action for a long time. Here is a post from 2015.
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=370163

I did not measure the action on my 214ce before it went for a neck reset. Afterwards it "seemed" to be better but I am not 100% sure. There is some room for it to be a little bit lower. Then the action would be similar to a used Eastman which I played a while back and a Fender Paramount PM-TE I played last week.

It is confusing so I called Taylor today about lower action. They said it should be 6/64 (low e) and 4/64 (high e) at the 12th fret. Anything other than that is a non-standard setup and would cost extra. Is there some reason that a Taylor acoustic cannot be setup with lower action. It seems impossible without getting into this endless loop about shims!!

That's normal action for any guitar. Any lower then that then most likely you will have to put up with a bit of buzzing particularly if you are a hard player. But for some people they don't mind that at all.

If that is where your string action is at the moment then consider yourself lucky, it's ideal. If you want it lower then you will need a shim.

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by rabbuhl

The tech at the local shop said to bring it in again. He adjusted the truss rood which lowered the action.

re: 6/64 action - "can it be lower?" - yes, I have mine (3 of them) at 5/64 on the bass E (1 is closer to 4/64). My neck angle is fine and I didn't want to shim it for action reduction, so I just took some off the saddle's bottom. No buzzing on mine (and probably most Taylors) at that setting. Manufacturers hate returns/warranty claims/complaints, so it's easier to set things high where there's less chance of an issue, and let the buyer tweak post-purchase.

re: forcing action reduction via the truss rod - yikes. Not the way I'd do it, though I bought a used Ami with an unhealthy backbow someone introduced to lower the action. Better course is to shim neck into decent angle, then fine tune action using the saddle. Not enough saddle left? Go a bit more in the shimmed angle, and try again.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by rabbuhl

I.... Is there some reason that a Taylor acoustic cannot be setup with lower action. It seems impossible without getting into this endless loop about shims!!

Again, there is tremendous misinformation and misunderstanding about how this works.

A couple points (very briefly written)

• no, the fretboard is not "still glued" to the top. That is also bolted on and the heart of the NT design.
• no, lowering the nut slots is not the first way to lower your action
• no, adjusting the truss rod does not adjust the action.
• no, you can't just keep lowering the saddle beyond a certain point - it will affect the guitar's playing

There is no "endless loop" about shims except that people don't really understand them.

A guitar setup is a combination of several different geometries. Assuming everything else is correct, then:

1. Neck angle, relative to soundboard
2. Height at nut
3. Height at saddle
4. Neck flatness or relief amount

If you change just one of these, you can get a small change in playability. But these things all work together and changing one is only a partial solution.

People often use a truss rod adjustment (incorrectly) to change the action on their guitar. It can affect the action and often you can get the desired result, but the truss rod is not (at all) designed to affect overall action. It is designed to set the relief in the neck.

So, that is an example where you can somewhat get by with a quick adjustment.

Similarly, you can lower your saddle to lower the strings, but now they might buzz up the neck, so you also have to tweak the truss rod to correct relief issues.

It's all intertwined.

The point is, if you want to change more than a certain amount, you need to change more than one thing. And there is no single answer or number that will always give you what you want, by changing only one thing.

You have to change those four numbered things, generally in that order, if you want a really good setup. You can get away with small tweaks by taking a shortcut.

But, especially if you want to make a big change, you need to do a "real" setup, not a shortcut tweak.

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by rabbuhl

The tech at the local shop said to bring it in again. He adjusted the truss rood which lowered the action.

Excellent, sometimes with weather changes, a neck will acquire some backbow, correct adjustment of a truss rod is all it needs to rectify the situation.

Steve

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by ChrisN

Manufacturers hate returns/warranty claims/complaints, so it's easier to set things high where there's less chance of an issue, and let the buyer tweak post-purchase.

Actually, Manufacturers want to sell guitars that customers pick up off the shelf and rave about, taylor IMO has an exceptional process which achieves this.

However, raw wood which has been crafted into a guitar and is manufactured in say mexico (for example), will have a different action height when it arrives in Alaska, in comparison to say one that arrives in Australia from the same build day.

Manufacturers take this into consideration in their build process and try to find a compromise that suits 90 percent of the population and their locality, the odd adjustment will clearly be required for the other 10 percent, they IMO do not make guitars with high action to minimise returns.

Steve

[John Arnold]

sometimes with weather changes, a neck will acquire some backbow

Yes, and removing backbow with a truss rod will raise the action, not lower it. Reducing forward bow is a way to lower the action, but that should only be done when there is excessive forward bow.

You have to change those four numbered things, generally in that order,

Since relief adjustment will alter action, there is no reason not to do it first. Otherwise, you are adjusting saddle height twice.

[rabbuhl]

Okay, maybe a story helps. When I was younger I several electrics. First a LP, then a Strat, and so on. I had one acoustic which my parents bought for me back in 1985: a Fender Gemini II.

My Fender Gemini II is set up with light strings and low action. I loved that guitar which I played a lot over the years. In 2011, I wanted to have a pickup installed in it. The tech said it was a cheap guitar and not worth putting in a pickup.

Without doing any research, I bought a Taylor 210ce and immediately traded it for a Taylor 214ce. I have been fighting with that 214ce ever since. An ES2 upgrade helped with the brightness. Even thought I took it to the Taylor factory several times I could never get it set up correctly. Now finally it is better. FWIW, I have quite a few electrics (LPs, Strats, Teles) and the action is set perfect (not too high, not too low) on all of them.

I certainly now like the 214ce as it is set up. I'll keep using it and hopefully it now gets broken in.

[nikpearson]

Originally Posted by rabbuhl

Okay, maybe a story helps. When I was younger I several electrics. First a LP, then a Strat, and so on. I had one acoustic which my parents bought for me back in 1985: a Fender Gemini II.

My Fender Gemini II is set up with light strings and low action. I loved that guitar which I played a lot over the years. In 2011, I wanted to have a pickup installed in it. The tech said it was a cheap guitar and not worth putting in a pickup.

In my experience the amplified tone of a guitar depends almost entirely on the pickup rather than the instrument’s acoustic output. In fact a less responsive guitar will often cause fewer issues when amplified. Piezo pickups have a distinct tonality that bears only a passing likeness to the sound of an acoustic guitar. If you like playing the Fender Gemini perhaps get someone to fit a pickup to that instrument.

That said Taylor’s ES2 system is pretty good as pickup/preamps go - one of the best factory fitted systems - so if you’ve finally got a setup you’re happy with...