Acoustic Recording Mudiness

[zamboknee]

I have a recording space that's setup for Voiceover work. That said, I'm going to build a proper VO booth in the future that factors in sound isolation and absorption.
I was trying to record some acoustic guitar yesterday (Epiphone EJ-200 jumbo) through my Townsend Labs Sphere L22 into Universal Audio Apollo, into Reaper.
I was a little disappointed in the mudiness of the recordings.
Here's a sample of the recording. Pretty sure I used the 'U87' model for the Townsend: https://soundcloud.com/moosevoice/ac.../s-SpFRIu2TuBd



Here's where I recorded it

[rick-slo]

What's the deal with your link - a regular tempo section and that other section - ?

[Doug Young]

I don't understand your mic setup from the photo. I see 2 mics (I think?) in rather odd positions, and I don't see a Townsend mic? I'd say the heavy blankets could be sucking up all your highs, leading to a muffled sound. Those are not ideal acoustic treatment. Also, from the recording sound, maybe you have the mic(s) aimed too much into the soundhole?

I'd look into mic placement. This article might help:

https://acousticguitar.com/home-reco...oustic-guitar/

If you're using one Townsend to record in mono, try placing the mic *above* the soundhole, in the middle of the guitar, about even with the waist, and adjust the height until it sounds good. Alternately, try the common 12-14 fret position. You also get more or less bass by how close to the guitar you are.

Also, I'd try the Townsend in stereo.

[Gdjjr]

I have very little experience in this area, but, FWIW- what are you playing back through speaker wise?-

I've recently had issues with a brand dadgum new lap top and a brand dadgum new iPad mini sounding muffled is the reason I asked- however, my fairly new (just a few mos old) iPhone7 (SE) outshines both of the others sound wise-

I purchased a blue tooth speaker and the result was the same- so I got an insignia mini sound bar that has adjustable sound equalizer - natural, theater and news- much clearer I promise you-

It seems the speaker industry is intentionally muffling the sound to produce something that ain't there- quality sound- as in clean and clear-

That link provided mentioned a Shure MV88- I tried one and was not impressed with it over what I already do, which is, lean my iPhone against my lap top screen and it captures me and my guitar very well- (better than the iPad mini matter of fact)- I also have a Shure57 plugged into mini fishman loud box and I still prefer directly to me phone- now, the amp might do better if I turned it up but, I live in an apt and try to be a good neighbor-

An interesting tid bit- I also have a tri pod for the phone- it seems the sound goes right past it- but, leaning it against the lap top screen it captures it really well-

All my you tube videos (20 or so) are done with the iPhone and a couple with the mini iPad- I wasted money on the iPad- and, it doesn't give a clean sound-

[nightchef]

What Doug said about acoustic treatment is spot on. When you absorb only mid-to-high frequencies, as you do with piano blankets, that's a recipe for mud. You need to either add some bass traps, or else just let the room be what it is.

It also may be that the mic is too close to the guitar. That would produce not only proximity effect (excessive bass) but also that hyper-articulate, scratchy sound I'm hearing on the treble side. It sounds as if the mic is very close to your picking hand. I would try moving the mic out farther (at least 1 foot, 1.5-2 feet may be better) and see if that helps. You do run into a diminishing-returns effect in a suboptimal room -- the further away the mic is from the instrument, the more unwanted room sound you get -- but it's worth a try.

[zamboknee]

Originally Posted by Gdjjr

I have very little experience in this area, but, FWIW- what are you playing back through speaker wise?-

I've recently had issues with a brand dadgum new lap top and a brand dadgum new iPad mini sounding muffled is the reason I asked- however, my fairly new (just a few mos old) iPhone7 (SE) outshines both of the others sound wise-

I purchased a blue tooth speaker and the result was the same- so I got an insignia mini sound bar that has adjustable sound equalizer - natural, theater and news- much clearer I promise you-

It seems the speaker industry is intentionally muffling the sound to produce something that ain't there- quality sound- as in clean and clear-

That link provided mentioned a Shure MV88- I tried one and was not impressed with it over what I already do, which is, lean my iPhone against my lap top screen and it captures me and my guitar very well- (better than the iPad mini matter of fact)- I also have a Shure57 plugged into mini fishman loud box and I still prefer directly to me phone- now, the amp might do better if I turned it up but, I live in an apt and try to be a good neighbor-

An interesting tid bit- I also have a tri pod for the phone- it seems the sound goes right past it- but, leaning it against the lap top screen it captures it really well-

All my you tube videos (20 or so) are done with the iPhone and a couple with the mini iPad- I wasted money on the iPad- and, it doesn't give a clean sound-

Headphones.

[zamboknee]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I don't understand your mic setup from the photo. I see 2 mics

Townsend behind the sennheiser 416 which is in the foreground.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by zamboknee

Townsend behind the sennheiser 416 which is in the foreground.

Oh, now I see. Hard to make sense of that photo. Also seems like an odd setup. There are common mic patterns people use for recording guitar for a reason: they work. I'd suggest starting with tried and true mic placements, ditching the blankets, and monitoring thru headphones is also not generally recommended, tho some people do use them.

[zamboknee]

Thanks Doug. I'm kind of stuck with the blankets as that's what I use for my voicework. That is, until I get the voice booth built.
I can open the blankets up a bit as they are on a sliding rail system.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by zamboknee

Thanks Doug. I'm kind of stuck with the blankets as that's what I use for my voicework. That is, until I get the voice booth built.
I can open the blankets up a bit as they are on a sliding rail system.

I'd suggest experimenting with that. Blankets wouldn't be the best choice for voice either. They tend to make everything (voice and guitar) sound like, well, you're under a blanket :-) That's not the best approach to acoustic treatment.

[TBman]

Don't point a mic directly at the lower bout of the guitar, point it downwards, towards the floor and see if that helps. I started doing that in my most recent recordings and it removed muddiness.

[Al Acuff]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I'd suggest experimenting with that. Blankets wouldn't be the best choice for voice either. They tend to make everything (voice and guitar) sound like, well, you're under a blanket :-) That's not the best approach to acoustic treatment.

Amen! Moving blankets are useless except for wrapping around furniture when you move. They provide little to no acoustic benefit. Especially in the low mid and bass regions where the mud lives.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Al Acuff

Amen! Moving blankets are useless except for wrapping around furniture when you move. They provide little to no acoustic benefit. Especially in the low mid and bass regions where the mud lives.

Ditto most mud is either low end or mid build up or both, and or comb filtering in mid's and highs . Also poor conversion and system self noice can lead to a lack of depth which can be compounded with mud to drain recordings of presence and depth.

[pshih1979]

Dude I have given up on any hope of recording a decent guitar sound with condenser mic

I have a AUDIENT ID14 which is boasted as being on the best audio interfaces
a CAD M179 which is boasted to be awesome on acoustic guitar
and a GUILD D240E dreadnought guitar with medium guage strings
IMO the GUILD D240E is the best sounding guitar ever I have played
very easy to fingerpick and has huge sound and very dynamic
very nice highs and lows
and mids

I record with REAPER
and HERES two problems I RUN INTO
THE INPUT SIGNAL PATH GOING TO THE DAW is
-30db I have the preamp gain set to 60% which is very good amount
so why is the signal going to daw so SO SO LOW

not only that but I have to use tons of compression and gain match just to bring levels to where its audible

then there's the MUD i mean really muddy sounding it doesn't matter where i record I tried everything sound panels blankets everything

JUST SUPER MUDDY

https://soundcloud.com/user-273389721

I've given up on recording
and here's some advice don't please don't buy a zoom they are total garbage recorders.
I'm not quite sure how Doug gets such clean audible and dynamic sound with zoom
however I set up the same connection to a camera with zoom h6
and it was GARBAGE the recording sound was so low you can't hear
and when you try to bring up the levels with compression or raising volume
it sounds so BASS heavy it drowns out any dynamics
kudo's to Doug being able to record nicely but I'm pretty sure hes using the apogee ensemble to record music which is a $2000 + interface which I don't have luxury of buying

lets just face it guys there's no such thing as being able to record guitar with a budget interface budget mic cuz it will just come out as CRAP
and no amount of EQ , fabfilter EQ reverb plugin, or DAW can save or help you improve sound.
you have to have $1000 + mic $20k worth of audio gear
which I am def not going to do

[pshih1979]

My rant is based off of past 5 years of trying to record acoustic fingerstyle guitar

the gear I went through omg and $1000 worth of stuff


clarett 2 pre thunderbolt
apogee duet 2 USB
Apollo twin DUO apollo twin SOLO
APOGEE ELEMENT 24
Audient id 44
focusrite 18i8 3rd gen

mics:
beyerdynamic mc930 pair $700
OKTAVA MK 012 pair $500
RODE NT 5 pair $400
RODE NT2A $300
SE 8 mics pair $500

guitars:

FURCH G23CR
LOWDEN F32C
MARTIN GPCPA4R

as you can see I have actually tested all possibilities and permutations out
and have concluded that what you hear from youtubers like
Doug and homebrewedmusic is the result of using very high end gear
but also knowing exactly what to do with the gear.
I have a quiet room and it just sounds bad