Talk me off of a ledge with jazz guitar

[Mark L]

Well, first, I have to agree with Tauber et al on the de rigeur comment on lessons before gear.

However, there’s a way to do both!

First, check out this very noteworthy youtube post on “getting a jazz tone out of a Telecaster”. Jazz (and every other genre) Worthy Telecasters can be had used or new for much less than $1200. With Tim Lerch and Julian Lage as current examples of players using blackguard teles for jazz, you’ll be in excellent company. Plus, a tele will give you a lot more versatility and a lot less potential headaches than, say, a vintage archtop.

https://youtu.be/PkA0sMHoiuw

Of course, a nice es-125 would be great, but have you checked prices on used guitars these days?

Oh, also, you’re going to need an amp capable of clean tones. Count on a few hundred more if you don’t have one.

As for lessons, if you’re already an established “high intermediate and above”player, and you have the discipline, you can get galaxies of lessons free on youtube, or for a very small investment thru

Truefire.com.

On youtube, I’ve already given you an intro to Tim Lerch above. He has lessons for sale on Truefire as well. Highly recommended. I can send you some others, and also a few to avoid (imo) if you want to pm me.

As for Truefire, I recommend starting at the beginning of the Frank Vignola series and working your way through that.

Lerch and Vignola are both excellent teachers, if you’re the type who can learn that way. I prefer it, actually, since I can do it all at my own pace, and get the exact same lesson again and again until it sinks in. Plus, there’s no pressure to have last week’s lesson prepared by “see you next Tuesday, 3 pm” if you know what I mean.

So, in sum: decent used tele, small amp (5-12 watt fender design, etc) capable of cleans, youtube free, Truefire lo cost extremely high quality.

Best wishes and good luck! You can do it!!

PS, nylon string guitars are also excellent for many types of “jazz”

[Br1ck]

I agree you can play anything on anything, but if a proper jazz style archtop will push you in the direction you want to go, do it.

[EZYPIKINS]

Originally Posted by Woolbury

I bought a '59 Gibson ES125T a couple years back and love it. I play it acoustic most of the time, but it has a sweet tone plugged in at living room levels. It has a 1 3/4 nut, and I can play finger style on it also, feels more like an acoustic than an electric. It has definitely fueled my jazzy blues leanings, I'm all over Kenny Burrell stuff, Midnight Blue, Chitlins con Carne, etc. Love having it along with my everyday acoustics.

My Dad bought that same guitar when he was 15. It's what I learned to play on.

P.S. If your wife thinks $1200 is allot. Show her a Byrdland.

[The Old Gaffer]

If Gabor Szabo could play jazz with an acoustic (albeit a Martin D-45) you can arguably play jazz on anything?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz0zYA_12og

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgeGwTpuld8

That said I love the sound of a good electric archtop like my ES-125. The Epiphone ES-175 Premium is also terrific.

[Brucebubs]

I'll try, "Don't do it scatcha dooby ska ska dooby scatcha doo do yeah!"

[Dogsnax]

Originally Posted by Mark L

With Tim Lerch and Julian Lage as current examples of players using blackguard teles for jazz, you’ll be in excellent company.

Don't forget about Bill Frisell!!!

[Brent Hahn]

While I love the idea of jazz guitar, and get a real kick out of Freddie Green style comping, I really don't much care for playing f-hole guitars. That kind of playing really only sounds right on an f-hole, but it's no fun in my lap. Or at least less fun than a flattop with a magnetic pickup. Again, just speaking for myself. You won't know how you feel about it until you own one, so you might as well get it over with. :-)

[Ugly Dougling]

I am out on the very same ledge, Garth. Been moving toward a jazz box for my own evolving interest/ability.

One thing I have learned is that this is an area where Ibanez really seems to shine. After a lot of research - and playing what little I could find in local shops - I had zoomed in on one specific model. Today I called "my guy" at Sweetwater and talked with him about my playing experience and my goals. Out of all the many guitars he could have chosen from you can imagine my surprise when he recommended the very Ibanez I had "found" - the AF75. And to think it goes for only $400! I was prepared to go to $1000. Gives me room to spring for a tube amp.

There are, of course, many others in the Ibanez line as you climb the ladder - both hollow and semi-hollow bodies. I know the more expensive models (with pricier pickups) will sound better if I really crank up the volume. In my case, I don't see that happening... but if it does, I can easily turn around and get $300 for this "improver guitar".

Honestly, I don't know enough about electrified guitars to know how to choose one. I am well-groomed in acoustic tonewoods, but here amps make at least as much difference in sound as the source (guitar), maybe even more. My acoustic genes are put off by this, but I proved it to myself in the store.

Curiously, the ONLY hollow body my local guy had was... an Ibanez AF75! The difference in sound convinced me that I've got to go hollow to get what I'm looking for. But this one is an ugly (to me) flat-black. Got to see about the shop's ability to get any other color (not easily done in these Covid days). Buy local if you can!

[Nymuso]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

I'd go one step further and say, skip buying a new guitar and put all of the money towards lessons. You can play jazz on just about any guitar, if you know how to play jazz. If you don't know how to play jazz, what guitar you play won't change that. Spend the money on lessons.

This.

(Saved me a lot of typing)

[s2y]

Originally Posted by garthjmoore

So I have flirted with jazz guitar for about 12-15 years now, never fully expanding my skills beyond some really cool chords, some gypsy jazz rhythms, and a few licks. I’ve often found a lot of archtops difficult to play because of size of body or scale length. Not blaming the guitar, but it’s a factor.

At 5'6" (on a good day) and 120lbs, I'm probably the smallest person on this forum. I use classical guitar technique with slight modifications. I'm pretty comfortable on this beast.

[musicman1951]

Originally Posted by garthjmoore

Now I think I found a guitar that will work. But, have to convince the wife to let me purchase it and it’s about 1200 bucks. Is this just a fool’s pursuit to thinking that this guitar will actually help me transcend into playing more jazz? Either talk me off the ledge or convince me I’m doing the right thing! 😊

I'd be happier to support this if it were a $3,400 guitar, but I think you're doing the right thing.

[Mr Bojangles]

Just jump!

[ruger9]

I think the "right" guitar CAN indeed "inspire" one to play it more, as well as the style it was intended for (jazz in this case.). I don't "shred" on my Gretsch, I don't "rockabilly" on my Charvel/Jackson, and I don't "jazz" on my strat.

I could, of course. But I don't. And I do jazz on my tele- but my tele is my #1, so I'll do anything on that particular guitar.

But more importantly, I want to agree with a poster above- if you don't LISTEN TO JAZZ INCESSANTLY, you'll never get it. I've listened to jazz for many years (an actually to big band since I was a kid, thanks to my parents), and I have never had an easy time "getting into PLAYING jazz". My brain just doesn't work that way. I learned and grew up as a rock/blues player, and jazz is another universe. I can rockabilly and jump blues, but jazz... it's a different wheelhouse altogether.

Myself, I do not own a "proper jazzbox" yet. I'd love an ES-125/copy. But truth be told, IDK if I will ever own one, because I don't play "real" jazz. I can't. Don't know if I ever will. I am sure having fun dipping my toe into the water tho, with people like Campilongo, Lage, Frisell, even Duke Levine. As much as I love Charlie Christian, Johnny Smith- I'll never play like them. Closest I'll get is like Kenny Burrell (heavily pentatonic, but still jazz... bluesy jazz.)

Anyway- good luck with you decision! And here's some more Julian Lage on a non-jazzbox for your listening enjoyment...



...aaaand some Kenny Burrell, played on a STRAT, by the legendary SRV...

[g-dude]

Originally Posted by s2y

At 5'6" (on a good day) and 120lbs, I'm probably the smallest person on this forum. I use classical guitar technique with slight modifications. I'm pretty comfortable on this beast.

That hole on the top just looks so....wrong.

I mean, the flip side is, you could totally drop your keys and some spare picks in there for safe keeping, and then it’d be easy to get them out.

[s2y]

Originally Posted by g-dude

That hole on the top just looks so....wrong.

I mean, the flip side is, you could totally drop your keys and some spare picks in there for safe keeping, and then it’d be easy to get them out.

I would have thought the sound hole would be the least visually offensive problem compared to 7 strings and fanned frets.

I like 'em strange sometimes. Might get a traditional hollow body with PAFs at some point and that one will look more conventional.