Taylor 514ce ES2 "Issues" (aka: Oops, I did it again)

HotRodx14 · #1 07-17-2018, 12:28 PM

I just recently picked up a 2014 Taylor 514ce that has the new Expression System 2. Acoustically, it is a wonderful guitar and plays and sounds wonderful. Unfortunately (apparently I didn't learn enough from my 614ce experience) I am having a hard time bonding with the new Expression System. It is possible that maybe I just need to adjust things? Or maybe mine still has the earlier preamp, and that changes made since then have fixed things?

What I am fighting with: there seems to be a boominess to the D and G strings that I am fighting EQing out. Also, the amount of "string squeak" that this pickup amplifies is a little overwhelming. I don't want to really amplify the sound my fingers make when changing chords, but this thing picks up all that. I'm wondering if anything has been done to address this, or do I just need to work on my playing technique? I read on another post that someone was trying loosening up the center sensor to eliminate cross-talk, but never got any results from that.

I love the guitar otherwise, and have contemplated ripping out the ES and putting in a K&K or something similar, but I'd like to keep it in place if possible, as people seem to not have such a hatred of these lately. Mine has the ES 2.0 preamp if that matters (I've read they went back to the 1.3 preamp for a bit for later models).

B. Adams · #2 07-17-2018, 12:39 PM

I bought a New-old stock 2015 614ce a few months ago, and its plugged in sound was absolutely awful. Thin sounding, noisy, maybe the same thing you're describing. Adjusting the pickups didn't appreciably change the sound. I emailed Taylor about it, they said there had been an electronics change and they'd send me the updated electronics under warranty. They got the stuff here quickly, and it's great now. Well, "great" is relative, but at least now it sounds like it's supposed to sound (and like my other Taylors).

You may have a different experience than I did with Taylor since my guitar was technically "new," but I think you should definitely check with them first. I love my Taylor guitars, and so far my experience with the company has been very positive.

DownUpDave · #3 07-17-2018, 12:48 PM

B-Adams, interesting read about Taylor changing the electronics and that the replacement you were sent sounds better. Thanks for sharing that as I wasnt aware of this. Great customer service by Taylor. I was just going to pipe in and say my 2017 512e 12 fret with the ES2 pick up sounds very good plugged in and I have no issues with the type of amplified sound it produces.

ii Cybershot ii · #4 07-17-2018, 01:45 PM

The ES2 is for sure the "noisiest" system around. It picks up every darn tap, scratch, and squeak. It's manageable with Elixir strings but without them the squeaks are truly loud and obnoxious. I think the ES2 reproduces the sound of the guitar very well, but the side-effects are for me, very annoying.

HotRodx14 · #5 07-17-2018, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DownUpDave

B-Adams, interesting read about Taylor changing the electronics and that the replacement you were sent sounds better. Thanks for sharing that as I wasnt aware of this. Great customer service by Taylor. I was just going to pipe in and say my 2017 512e 12 fret with the ES2 pick up sounds very good plugged in and I have no issues with the type of amplified sound it produces.

I emailed Taylor Customer Service (who got back to me almost immediately) and they said mine does in fact have the "older" version of the preamp. They have since reduced the mids and the gain level and said it might help my issues if I swap it out for the newer version that they will send me.

I'm going to give that a shot, as I'd rather keep it with the stock pickup installation and not have to do a bunch of work to plug holes that aren't being used with a new pickup. Fingers crossed...

B. Adams · #6 07-17-2018, 04:20 PM

I'm glad they're getting you taken care of! Hopefully you're happy with the sound after the upgrade.

Groberts · #7 07-17-2018, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ii Cybershot ii

The ES2 is for sure the "noisiest" system around. It picks up every darn tap, scratch, and squeak. It's manageable with Elixir strings but without them the squeaks are truly loud and obnoxious. I think the ES2 reproduces the sound of the guitar very well, but the side-effects are for me, very annoying.

I agree with every single word Cybershot wrote. That was my experience. Great natural acoustic tone amplified. ..along with string squeak that was very challenging bordering on unacceptable. (for me)
PS: I didn't realize there may have been an updated ES2 preamp? But I doubt it would have defeat the string squeak.

HotRodx14 · #8 07-17-2018, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groberts

I agree with every single word Cybershot wrote. That was my experience. Great natural acoustic tone amplified. ..along with string squeak that was very challenging bordering on unacceptable. (for me)
PS: I didn't realize there may have been an updated ES2 preamp? But I doubt it would have defeat the string squeak.

I owned a revoiced 614ce with the ES2 a while back, and I didn't notice as much noise on that one, but I was constantly fighting feedback with that guitar which is part of why I got rid of it.

I have also played a couple new Taylors and plugged them in at the shop. They are definitely noisier than the older ES1.3 guitars I've owned, but it wasn't so noticeable that I was put off by it. I play Elixirs, so that probably helps a lot. I don't think I'd be able to handle the noises from an uncoated string...

I'm remaining hopeful for now. I'll update with the results once I get it all put together.

HotRodx14 · #9 07-22-2018, 05:25 PM

Taylor sent me the newer ES-T preamp that they are putting in the new guitars and all is well!! Output is lower than before, but the tone is back to what I expected! It sounds fantastic now. No more boominess or feeding back either.

Happy days.

jazzguy · #10 07-23-2018, 05:17 AM

I'm confused. Taylor is not putting an ES-T pickup in newer guitars in your series. I have a 2016 with ES2 and it is dead quiet and quite good but you need to adjust the small screws on the bridge for taste. I have owned every model of ES pup that Taylor has produced. All the ones before this ES2 were crap IMHO, but they got this one right.

https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitar...system%C2%AE-2

DownUpDave · #11 07-23-2018, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotRodx14

Taylor sent me the newer ES-T preamp that they are putting in the new guitars and all is well!! Output is lower than before, but the tone is back to what I expected! It sounds fantastic now. No more boominess or feeding back either.

Happy days.

That's great news......love a happy ending. Thanks for updating us with the results.

LeftIsRight! · #12 07-23-2018, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzguy

I'm confused. Taylor is not putting an ES-T pickup in newer guitars in your series. I have a 2016 with ES2 and it is dead quiet and quite good but you need to adjust the small screws on the bridge for taste. I have owned every model of ES pup that Taylor has produced. All the ones before this ES2 were crap IMHO, but they got this one right.

https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitar...system%C2%AE-2

My thoughts exactly.

I also have a 2016 814ce dlx and quite frankly, have no issues whatsoever with the ES2. It works really well. Upon initial setup, I had to adjust the screws a bit at first as some strings were sounding louder than others. But that’s about it.

vindibona1 · #13 07-23-2018, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ii Cybershot ii

The ES2 is for sure the "noisiest" system around. It picks up every darn tap, scratch, and squeak. It's manageable with Elixir strings but without them the squeaks are truly loud and obnoxious. I think the ES2 reproduces the sound of the guitar very well, but the side-effects are for me, very annoying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftIsRight!

My thoughts exactly.

I also have a 2016 814ce dlx and quite frankly, have no issues whatsoever with the ES2. It works really well. Upon initial setup, I had to adjust the screws a bit at first as some strings were sounding louder than others. But that’s about it.

My 2017 814ceDLX transmits major string squeak. And overall it the amplified sound is basically tolerable, I never play out without putting an external preamp between guitar and DI box. I wanted something cheap that had more control than the guitar's preamp so I got a Baggs GigPro preamp that I can hook to the guitar's strap or attached to a music stand for easy access {$100 btw}.

The other thing that will reduce string squeak is Finger Ease. While it is a spray on type of string lubricant I apply the stuff sparingly by spraying it onto a sponge and then wiping it on so it takes less product and doesn't get sprayed into the windings. I always use it on my electrics and basses, but not usually on my acoustics- but it works.

HotRodx14 · #14 07-23-2018, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzguy

I'm confused. Taylor is not putting an ES-T pickup in newer guitars in your series. I have a 2016 with ES2 and it is dead quiet and quite good but you need to adjust the small screws on the bridge for taste. I have owned every model of ES pup that Taylor has produced. All the ones before this ES2 were crap IMHO, but they got this one right.

https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitar...system%C2%AE-2

Not the ES-T pickup, the preamp. The pickup is still the 3 piezos behind the saddle. Taylor has started using that preamp on the ES-2 systems as well, as it has less gain and seems to work a lot better.

Look inside your guitar on the circuit board, there should be a small white sticker with a model number or version on it. You probably have a guitar where the preamp was already updated from the original version (which wasn't very good IMO). The ES2.0 boards that were used in the early ES-2 guitars are no longer. I heard they started going back to the ES1.3 preamps for a little while, and now they are using the ES-T preamps (I checked several new Taylors at Guitar Center and all of them had the same ES-T preamp).

LeftIsRight! · #15 07-23-2018, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vindibona1

My 2017 814ceDLX transmits major string squeak. And overall it the amplified sound is basically tolerable, I never play out without putting an external preamp between guitar and DI box. I wanted something cheap that had more control than the guitar's preamp so I got a Baggs GigPro preamp that I can hook to the guitar's strap or attached to a music stand for easy access {$100 btw}.

The other thing that will reduce string squeak is Finger Ease. While it is a spray on type of string lubricant I apply the stuff sparingly by spraying it onto a sponge and then wiping it on so it takes less product and doesn't get sprayed into the windings. I always use it on my electrics and basses, but not usually on my acoustics- but it works.

That’s interesting. My experience has been different for sure. Thanks for the info about how to reduce squeak. I might need to try that in my other guitars!

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotRodx14

Not the ES-T pickup, the preamp. The pickup is still the 3 piezos behind the saddle. Taylor has started using that preamp on the ES-2 systems as well, as it has less gain and seems to work a lot better.

Look inside your guitar on the circuit board, there should be a small white sticker with a model number or version on it. You probably have a guitar where the preamp was already updated from the original version (which wasn't very good IMO). The ES2.0 boards that were used in the early ES-2 guitars are no longer. I heard they started going back to the ES1.3 preamps for a little while, and now they are using the ES-T preamps (I checked several new Taylors at Guitar Center and all of them had the same ES-T preamp).

Now you got me curious. Will take a look inside my guitar when I get home. Being a 2016 model, I wonder if I have the older preamp...though I haven’t had issues with it. But maybe I have an updated one after all. Will report back.