Is a 000-15 really better than a 00-15 for strumming?

[CatDogFishRat]

Hi all.

I own a Martin 00-15m which I really love the feel and tone of but in comparison to bigger spruce guitars it obviously has less bass and volume. Ironically enough one of the big reasons I originally chose the 00 was because it would be less loud due to tinnitus but I am now at a place where I can handle playing louder acoustic guitars.

I was curious about the differences between the 00 and 000 as I wondered if a 000-15m would give a noticeable difference in volume and bass. When looking at forums and video comparisons Of the 2 guitars I noticed that people are often describing the 00 as more of a finger style instrument. I found this quite surprising as I know John Frusciante uses/used an even smaller 0-15 for live performing and he strummed it quite aggressively. I feel I would enjoy more bass and volume but I never really thought the 00 was unsuitable for strumming.

So in summary, would a 000-15m really give a big difference in tone and volume? I assume it’s still going to be quieter than a spruce top equivalent.

Also, if I were to raise the action on the guitar would this increase any bass or volume? It’s currently at 2mm on the high e string but I have found I now prefer an action of 2.25mm

[Cool555]

Like you, I own a 00-15m. I bought it new in December 2019. A year prior to that, I remember trying out both the 00 & 000-15m in the GC. Yes, I do think that the 000 is louder for strumming. I also read somewhere that the 000-15m is more popular than the 00-15m. But I think for the difference in volume, it is probably quite negligible and not worth getting a 000 just for that increase in volume. A Spruce top will do that job better. Just my 2 cents.

[geoawelch]

Why is a spruce top even talked about in a discussion about two all mahogany guitars?

[Kerbie]

CDFR... I owned a 00-15M and I think you're right that the 000 will bring you more bass and volume. I think it's a noticeable difference, but it's not huge. The question is whether or not it's worth it. It is to some, but not to me. You're giving up that sweet little focus the 00 brings and that's why I bought the guitar. The 000 is louder, but it's also a tiny bit muddier. That may not matter much if you're mostly interested in strumming the 000... probably matters more if you're playing fingerstyle. Both are very enjoyable guitars.

[Lillis]

Originally Posted by Cool555

Like you, I own a 00-15m. I bought it new in December 2019. A year prior to that, I remember trying out both the 00 & 000-15m in the GC. Yes, I do think that the 000 is louder for strumming. I also read somewhere that the 000-15m is more popular than the 00-15m. But I think for the difference in volume, it is probably quite negligible and not worth getting a 000 just for that increase in volume. A Spruce top will do that job better. Just my 2 cents.

+1 and I own a 0015 too.

[Robin, Wales]

Personally, I think I'd be more than happy with a 00-15m for strumming and flat picking. I have a similar size all hog guitar.

You could always play around with string types and pick thickness/shapes/materials if you feel you want to find just a little more bass.

A 000-15 could well give a bit more bass and volume and perhaps more blend and less articulation. However, if you are singing across the guitar these may be traits you don't particularly need.

Both are lovely guitars.

[CatDogFishRat]

Originally Posted by geoawelch

Why is a spruce top even talked about in a discussion about two all mahogany guitars?

I think they probably get mentioned because whether or not you already have a spruce top guitar might play a part in which size mahogany is better for you. This is part of why I have researched the 2 sizes and started this thread. I already have a spruce top guitar as well which is good for strumming so that could be a part of which size is better for me.

[OKCtodd71]

CatDog,
Don't know how thick of a pick you normally use but I often use Ultex 1.14 with my acoustic archtop. However when I strum I'll grab a .71 Ultex and the difference is night & day. The thinner pick, which I cannot stand for anything but strumming "cuts through" drastically more pronounced than its twice as thick cousin. It may or may not be a little louder (?) but one's perception of the guitar's sound is altered substantially. I wouldn't be a but surprised if playing a oo- with a 1mm pick followed by strumming with a .71 would produce a more noticeable "perception" of volume than switching between an oo- followed by playing a ooo- using just the 1mm pick.
Fwiw, I use standard 351 Ultex picks, which I personally find brings out the best in any acoustic guitar I've played. I would expect the same results from different materials like celluloid and delrin.

[stephenT]

“Is a 000-15 really better than a 00-15 for strumming“

No.

[DownUpDave]

I will give you my experience, FWIW. I wanted a 00-15.....badly so I went test driving them. There were always 000-15 on the wall at guitar stores while demoing the 00-15 so A/B tests were always done. I am primarily a strummer singer and the the 000-15 won “me” over. It is all personal preference hence the “me”, but I did buy a 000-15 and love it for its intended purpose.

[Side1LedZepIV]

The only real strummer in the 15 Series is the D-15. Compare and hear.

[FrankHudson]

Guitars (even of the same size) differ and players' playing styles differ too. One person's strumming and target timbre isn't the next person's.

This makes any answer like 000-15 > 00-15 problematic. I have a 00-15, but I don't strum all that much, and so it doesn't get much strumming action. I have a old non-descript sort of Japanese Martin 00-28 copy that used to be my main acoustic and it worked well when I needed to strum it. Also very "punchy" so it cut through other instruments with percussive parts better than one might expect. Another person's strumming might expect slower chords with sustain, and that guitar isn't the guitar for that as much.

You'd have to try guitars to tell what the answer is for you. Yes, as you've read, larger body guitars are known (in general) as the strumming guitar and smaller bodies ones as "for fingerpickers." You don't play guitars "in general"--you play them in specifics.

[mercy]

I played both martin and gibson style -00's for years but I couldnt get enough volume and fullness out of them so I went to 000 and yes its there. Of course a dread has more but I dont like the dread sound. Ive heard some sj's that are just marvelous so Im thinking my next guitar will be be an sj. So yes I think youll get more out of a 000. I couldnt be happy with a typical 00 in any iteration. There are some exceptions like the Eric Skye.

[jpd]

It has a bit more "head room". No matter which of the two sizes you have, if you play with a keyboard and voices you'll want it mic'd By the way...my 0-15 has plenty of volume for my own solo w/voice.

[bufflehead]

Originally Posted by mercy

I played both martin and gibson style -00's for years but I couldnt get enough volume and fullness out of them so I went to 000 and yes its there.

Agreed. Once one gets past basic strumming and applies technique such as palm muting, the extra volume and fullness of the 000 is an asset.

I did A/B comparisons between the 00-15 and 000-15 for more than an hour when I bought by 000-15m. I really wanted to prefer the smaller guitar, but it just didn't support the music I was playing as well. I do a lot of work playing rhythm, backing up other instruments. I fear that the 00-15 would get lost in a lot of that work unless it's plugged in.

The people I play with, especially in Old Time, love the 000-15m, and actually prefer its ability to blend in as compared with when I show up with a dreadnought. It seems to hit the perfect mix in a group when jamming unplugged. Try boom-chucking with an 00 in a group and you'll quickly see what I mean.