Larrivee OM-40r bridge replace?

[maxtheaxe]

Last Fall, I bought a Larrivee OM-40R from a guy who had it on Craigslist. It was a decent deal...guitar played well, sounded good, but I didn't really spend a lot of time with it before I made the buy. Caveat Emptor! If I ever consider a deal like this again, I will be taking a mirror and a flashlight along with me and I will insist on removing strings to thoroughly inspect the interior of the guitar. If I had noticed the following I would have never bought it.

Got it home & realized that someone had done a poor job of slotting the bridge; these guitars have the pin holes ramped as they come new, so I didn't look closely, but on later inspection, realized that the slots were crude, off-center, and go right down & through the bridge plate. This was NOT done at factory, but by a hacker.

Among other things, I have a problem with the B-string ball end coming up through the plate, into the pin hole, not stopping at the bridge plate as I tune it up when replacing string. I got a nice set of un-slotted pins for it and that helps, but that B-string still gives me problems (like B-strings aren't enough of a PITA already?).

I was able to make the slots a little better, smoother, a little bit more centered-looking, using some diamond needle files, but really didn't have enough to work with on that score. I've begun to consider just biting the bullet and replacing the bridge, so I have a couple of questions on that, especially for anyone who is familiar with Larrivee construction & materials.

Is this something that could be tackled by someone who has never done it? I'm reasonably skilled at things like set-ups, making saddles, nuts, finish issues, adjusting necks, etc, but never done anything like a bridge replacement.

Secondly, it seems to me that the bridge plate might be somewhat buggered; is it feasible to replace that as well (whether I do it or hire a luthier)? Is this a common way to repair under the circumstances? Would I be better off to just put in a "plate-mate"? What's the process for bridge removal, given the type of glue & construction on a Larrivee? I think I could get the new one on, in the right place, if I could get the old one off without damaging the guitar. Same question for the plate...

I have a few pix of this, taken before I touched it up. Thanks for looking!

[mirwa]

Bridge plate looks fairly fine by that photo, they have notched into it, not enough IMO to warrant replacement, be warned replacing a bridge plate is not for the faint of heart, even good luthiers can damage the guitar up badly doing the job, it’s a horrible job to do.

Swapping out a bridge is not hard but also has a few dangers associated with it, for example finish damage.

The biggest question is can you buy a replacement bridge, would a generic aftermarket one fit, or would one have to be made to suit, making them is not hard if you have access to some decent woodwork tools

Steve

[maxtheaxe]

mirwa, Larrivee has these bridges available at their site. I figured as long as I'm at it, I might get one with inlaid wings, to wit...

https://www.larrivee.com/shop/larriv...f-pearl-inlays

When I asked about the plate, they said they would send me one...but they did sound a bit skeptical about the idea.

[B. Howard]

What type pins? Slotted? The person who cut those slots all the way through was likely fitting unslotted pins in a bridge and plate that was done for slotted ones. If your pins are slotted turn them so the slot is toward the bottom and not at the string and see if that don't solve your issues.

[John Arnold]

The slots can be filled with slivers of ebony and recut to fit the strings. The bridgeplate can also be repaired. I see no reason to replace either one.
I do prefer using unslotted pins and slotting the bridge. Done correctly, both the pins and the bridgeplate should last a lifetime.

[maxtheaxe]

Thanks for the replies. As mentioned in the OP, these guitars come with slotted bridge. As new, they are simply ramped in the wood of the bridge itself, not slotted/hacked (sloppily!) all the way through the top & into the plate. These guitars also come with slotted pins, which I have replaced with un-slotted bone pins, trying to address the problems.

Someone thought it was a good idea to slot it this way, but executed very poorly & the result is that, not only do I get slippage with the B-string (& maybe a couple others), but the slots are off-center, affecting the string position on the saddle. I can get it playable...just... but the string spacing is wonky and also just looks bad.

I'm not going to repair this bridge; I was mainly wondering what I'm looking at to remove the old one...what type of glue is used to mount these, do I use heat and a spatula to remove it, etc. Anyone had a Larrivee apart?

[tadol]

If you remove the bridge, you run a risk of altering intonation, damaging the top, and screwing up the finish. But the best info would be available directly from Larrivee. I’d quietly suggest that you run a far higher risk of making a mess of the job trying to replace it, than you would doing a simple patch/repair. I guess I’m not clear what the problem is thats so severe you’d consider replacing it as your first option? I mean, you can patch and modify the existing very easily, and still have the option of replacing if the results were unacceptable -

[maxtheaxe]

Originally Posted by tadol

If you remove the bridge, you run a risk of altering intonation, damaging the top, and screwing up the finish. But the best info would be available directly from Larrivee. I’d quietly suggest that you run a far higher risk of making a mess of the job trying to replace it, than you would doing a simple patch/repair. I guess I’m not clear what the problem is thats so severe you’d consider replacing it as your first option? I mean, you can patch and modify the existing very easily, and still have the option of replacing if the results were unacceptable -

Well, replacing the bridge wasn't my first option; I've had the guitar for better part of a year & tried touching up the slots, with moderate success, and bought unslotted pins for it. I still notice how off-center those slots are now (see pic) and still have problems with strings seating right.

It's kind of like a car repair, where the labor to do a compromise repair is most or all of the way to just replacing the whole component for few bucks more. The stock ebony replacement bridges are only $75.00...few bucks more than that, I get inlays.

[tadol]

But thats exactly my point - the cost to fill and re-cut the slots in the existing bridge is a very tiny fraction of the cost of replacing the bridge - both in labor and materials, and filling is a 0 risk job compared to replacing. But if the primary goal is to get some inlays, thats a completely different matter -

[maxtheaxe]

Originally Posted by tadol

But thats exactly my point - the cost to fill and re-cut the slots in the existing bridge is a very tiny fraction of the cost of replacing the bridge - both in labor and materials, and filling is a 0 risk job compared to replacing. But if the primary goal is to get some inlays, thats a completely different matter -

Well...not the primary goal, but if I take this step I might as well, for the difference in price.

I may move this guitar on down the road, and I'm probably going to lose money either way because of this. With a new bridge, at least I don't have to rationalize it to a buyer...it will be a new bridge, instead of a repaired bridge requiring a whole other level of disclosure that might get a prospect kind of 'froggy' about a purchase. I think it might go smoother if, as long as I'm at it, I present something that's customized to a degree.

[tadol]

Ok - you’re determined, no matter what - go for it, and good luck -

[John Arnold]

Some kind of wood glue is used on the bridge, so it is best to heat the bridge to remove it.
Too much heat can damage the finish.
If the top has runout, running a spatula under the bridge from the wrong direction can pull chunks of spruce out.
The spatula can damage the top finish.
The bridge must be precisely located.
I use two 1/2" long brads in drilled holes through the bottom of the saddle slot to precisely locate the bridge. The brads are rubbed with wax or soap so the glue won't stick to them. The brads are pulled out after the glue dries.
The top must be cleaned of all old glue. I use a chisel and a small sanding block. Very often, factory guitars have finish on the top around the edges of the footprint. I remove all of this by temporarily placing the new bridge on with the brads and scribing around it with an XActo knife. I then remove the bridge and clean off the finish up to the scribe mark.
I use wooden cauls on the bridgeplate and the bridge to distribute the pressure from two deep throat clamps. Clamping to the X-braces is not kosher.
I clean the glue squeeze out immediately after clamping with a damp rag.
Dried glue in the bridge pin holes is cleaned out with a drill bit and tapered reamer. Glue in the string slots is cleaned with a small jig saw blade and needle files.
After all of this, you still need to address the bridgeplate issues.
I have found it better to repair the bridgeplate while the bridge is off, but it can be done either way.
I tape over the bridgeplate holes inside with a strip of masking tape.
I alternately drop in fine wood dust and thin super glue until the holes are filled up. I let dry, pull off the masking tape, and redrill the holes through the bridge. I then taper ream the holes to fit the pins. The last step is to cut the string slots.
The entire bridgeplate repair takes me no more than 15 minutes. I generally charge $15 to $20.

[maxtheaxe]

No, I'm not "determined, no matter what". I started this by asking what is involved. I have yet to see this addressed.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by maxtheaxe

Is this something that could be tackled by someone who has never done it?

The short answer is not likely.

John provided an overview of the process. The chances of a first-timer performing the job so that it adds value, rather than greatly diminishes value, to the instrument are fairly slim.

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by maxtheaxe

No, I'm not "determined, no matter what". I started this by asking what is involved. I have yet to see this addressed.

I can understand your frustration when being told you possibly shouldn’t do it, but people are telling you honestly what needs to be done.

This forum is very good and forth coming with information, imagine a world where info is not shared. Many industrys people hide the knowledge.

I will show you some photos of the process to remove the bridge.

Steve