Breakpoints Shootout

[AgentKooper]

I can't identify any difference between the bridge pin recordings. I'd bet $50 that in a blind test, no one reading this thread could tell me with any reasonable accuracy whether I was playing a random selection of these recordings, or just one of them over and over. And I'd bet an extra $100 that no one could reliably identify which recording corresponds with which pin material.

But I guess we'll never know.

[TBman]

I liked the Liquid Metal pins with the bone nut and saddle, but I'm not paying $150 for them.

[Shades of Blue]

The results were exactly what I thought they'd be. Mr. Carr sounded like he was playing a Martin in every clip!

[vindibona1]

Originally Posted by zmf

Not quite. There is never an absence of science. Science is simply an attempt to understand causal relationships based on known laws. True, there is sometimes a limitation on the ability to conduct a controlled experiment. If that's what you mean by voodoo, then OK.

But yesterday's voodoo is tomorrow's understanding. Everything we're arguing about here -- the effect of bridge pins on sound, how bridge pins might effect sound, the ability of humans to perceive those changes -- is accessible to controlled studies if anyone really wanted to make the effort.

If you read the comment buzz-line carefully, it doesn't negate science, but includes it, yet implies there are parts of it that we don't understand nor have the scientific means to understand it. The human often is equipped with abilities that our current scientific equipment doesn't yet have the capability to measure, let alone understand.

Seems that some folks just want to argue for the sake of arguing. I give up.

[rick-slo]

There are many more important variables that are not being controlled and that are being ignored by some - looking for the cause of some flattened grass and focusing on the tickbird on the elephant's back instead of on the elephant.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

I give up.

Somehow, I seriously doubt that

[HFox]

That discussion like this can elicit so much comment of such detail Proves that we are a cult.......I think I'll travel on.

[ahorsewithnonam]

My takeaway was the ebony pins softened the tone. Perfect if a guitar is a little too bright for you. The plastic pins seemed to have a little more clarity.

[zmf]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

The human often is equipped with abilities that our current scientific equipment doesn't yet have the capability to measure, let alone understand.

Such as? Seriously -- there are enough controlled behavioral paradigms to answer some of these issues -- if not physiological measures.

Originally Posted by vindibona1

Seems that some folks just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

Sorry, but having spent a career in sensory physiology, I feel obliged to make the case for science.

[CaptRedbeard]

The only difference I could discern was with the ebony pins. The rest was very much the same. Yet I might add that any recording will only be a poor comparison to listening to the guitars live, unaltered and unfiltered. Just my humble opinion of course.

[Goodallboy]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

There are many more important variables that are not being controlled and that are being ignored by some - looking for the cause of some flattened grass and focusing on the tickbird on the elephant's back instead of on the elephant.

Is this condescending, or is it just me?

The remainder was edited.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Goodallboy

Is this condescending, or is it just me?

The remainder was edited.

It was an accurate description of the topic with a little metaphor thrown in for visualization.

[frankmcr]

war.

War!

!

Why can't we be friends?

[AgentKooper]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

Seems that some folks just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

I don’t want to argue about bridge pins. I’d be happy to never read or talk about bridge pins here ever again. But I’m reading descriptions here of your ability to dial up specific, predictable, and obvious sound changes in a guitar simply by swapping out bridge pins. But that doesn’t comport with my experience. It doesn’t seem to have any basis in the physics of a guitar. And to my ear it’s not supported by any of the recorded “evidence” that keeps getting posted here. So it’s hard not to respond critically to the claims.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by AgentKooper

Exactly. I would like to hear the answer to this too. It seems to me there would be about zero energy left in a string by the time it touches a bridge pin. Try to pluck a string between the saddle and the bridge pin. Nothing there.

Perhaps a resident physicist can explain why I'm wrong. Anyone?

The response of a mechanical system, such as a guitar, is very largely governed by the mass, stiffness/spring constant and damping of the system. One way of altering that response is to alter the mass of the system. Ways to do that include adding weight to the head and increasing the weight of the bridge assembly. Some have, for example, attached a heavy metal clamp to the head and observed a change in sound. Adding weight to the bridge has also been shown to alter a guitar’s response: some guitars are more sensitive to weight changes to the bridge than others. Using a heavier saddle and bridge pins are one way to increase the weight of the bridge assembly. A simple experiment can be performed to determine whether or not any measured changes in sound are due to a change in the mass of the bridge assembly via heavier pins vs. The material from which the pins are made. Until such an experiment is conducted, it is conjecture.