Grand Pacific Showdown...517 Vs 717

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

Kudos to my dealer and Taylor. They are willing to either replace the guitar, or fix the scratch. Taking it to a service center in Charlotte this weekend. Stay tuned...

I knew they would take care of it. That is great service nonetheless. These are super beautiful wonderful guitars. You found what works for you and they are great guitars at that.

By the way, did the 517 also come without electronics? Are those stock items or special order without the ES2 Pickup?

[jklotz]

Originally Posted by Groberts

I knew they would take care of it. That is great service nonetheless. These are super beautiful wonderful guitars. You found what works for you and they are great guitars at that.

By the way, did the 517 also come without electronics? Are those stock items or special order without the ES2 Pickup?

Best I can tell, they seem to be 1/2 with and 1/2 without es2

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by Groberts

I knew they would take care of it. That is great service nonetheless. These are super beautiful wonderful guitars. You found what works for you and they are great guitars at that.



By the way, did the 517 also come without electronics? Are those stock items or special order without the ES2 Pickup?

I have no clue. My dealer just happened to have stock in both.



I put smoked nickel tuners on the 717 and they are stunning. I'm considering putting some satin black tuners on the 517. What do you think?

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[Shades of Blue]

Well, I am definitely starting to prefer the 717 over the 517. It's a close call, but I will try to define the differences I'm hearing (and feeling) after a few weeks with each. Both guitars have a Taylor bone saddle, Santa Cruz Mid Tension strings, and I have changed out the tuners on the 717 to smoked nickel, and the 517 is getting satin black tuners.

Sound:

I am going to have to give this to the 717 at this point. I think that it sounds more full, and has a bit more low end. The 717 is noticeably louder, and I'm not saying that it is a little louder. It is much louder. I need to use my db app and measure, but I am shocked by the volume difference. The volume difference is the only thing causing me to question whether or not I got a "good" 517, or if the 717 is just a special guitar. Having said that, the 517 is much more precise and dry, so I prefer it for fingerstyle and hybrid picking. I had planned to keep my 717 in DADGAD, but I have to say that the 517 holds up better and has a stronger low E string when tuned down. This is a lot of fun.

Feel/Playability

Believe it or not, these guitars feel and play much differently. The setup on the 717 is awful. I mean, the action is SUPER high, and it is really high at the nut as well. I am actually disappointed in Taylor's factory setup on this one. It is borderline uncomfortable, but because I like a higher action to begin with, I have gotten used to it and will manage until I can get a setup on it. The 517 has a much lower factory setup, and it is easier to play. This could be why the 517 sounds a little brighter, but I attribute that more to mahogany vs rosewood.

The really strange thing is that the necks feel different on these guitars. The 717 feels more rounded and soft, and fatter, and the 517 feels less played in. The crazy part is that the rounded fretboard edges are much nicer on the 717 and uniform the entire fretboard. The 517 looks like it was done halfway and by someone not as experienced. It just looks and feels choppy. I didn't notice this at first, and it is a little concerning by the amount of difference there.

Aesthetics and Vibe

This one is a tie. If I couldn't only keep one based on looks, I couldn't make a decision because they are both incredibly beautiful. The vibe I get from the 517 is 100% folk/bluegrass and I have a hard time playing any but cowboy chords and country songs. The 717 on the other hand gives me a more delicate and sophisticated vibe. This is why I want to assign it my DADGAD duties, but it is so much deeper and louder than the 517, that I have a hard time not using it in standard as well.

Winner

If I could only keep one, it would be the 717. The interesting thing is that even though I have "pitted" the 517 and 717 against each other, I have no desire whatsoever to unload the 517. It gives me exactly what I was looking for in a guitar that is close enough in sound and feel to my 717 to be perfect "second guitar." Over time, I see the 517 becoming the performance guitar in that I will outfit it with a pickup, and take it jams and whatnot. The 717 is the one that I will keep safely at home and out of the elements.

Can't go wrong with either one, and the most difficult decision for me would be what finish to get!!!

[boneuphtoner]

I would predict the volume, response, etc. on your 517 will catch up to your 717 once it gets played in just a little more. Having said that I did detect a little more bass on the 717 compared to the 517 or 317 when I did a long comparison on new models with the stock Elixirs.

[rmp]

I'd like to love these, but the satin finish for me is a massive turn off....

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by boneuphtoner

I would predict the volume, response, etc. on your 517 will catch up to your 717 once it gets played in just a little more. Having said that I did detect a little more bass on the 717 compared to the 517 or 317 when I did a long comparison on new models with the stock Elixirs.

A local guitar luthier I use here (Who coincidentally used to work for Taylor in El Cajon) told me his experience is Mahogany guitars tend to open up more than guitars with other tone woods. I would definitely give it some time Jonathan.

As for the 717 action, spend the money with a guitar tech/luthier you trust and get it set up with the action you like. My guitar tech always inspects fret level. Sometimes I've paid a little more for an initial set up as he refines the fret level, no matter how 'reasonable' it may be when brand new. That insures the best possible action that works for me and my guitars always come back from my tech better than when I started. Maybe I shouldn't have to do so, but its worth it to me.

[TDavis]

Originally Posted by rmp

I'd like to love these, but the satin finish for me is a massive turn off....

I wouldn't say the satin finish is a deal breaker for me...but I MUCH prefer a gloss finish, even if it's just the top.

[jklotz]

Originally Posted by rmp

I'd like to love these, but the satin finish for me is a massive turn off....

I understand, I do, but try one next time you are in a shop. I find the finish is very comfortable, especially after an hour or so of playing.

[drplayer]

Originally Posted by Groberts

As for the 717 action, spend the money with a guitar tech/luthier you trust and get it set up with the action you like. No matter how 'reasonable' it may be when brand new. My guitars always come back from my tech better than when I started. Maybe I shouldn't have to do so, but its worth it to me.

I agree completely! I consider the cost of a pro set-up just an extension of the cost of the guitar. I’m fortunate to have a great luthier/tech (Martin certified), within a 1/2 hour drive of me, and with extremely rare exception, all new (or new to me) guitars I purchase visit him within the first couple weeks I own them. He knows how I like my guitars set-up, and they always come back perfect. There’s just no reason in my mind to struggle or have to make adjustment playing a guitar, when for a comparatively small investment it can be avoided...

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by Groberts

A local guitar luthier I use here (Who coincidentally used to work for Taylor in El Cajon) told me his experience is Mahogany guitars tend to open up more than guitars with other tone woods. I would definitely give it some time Jonathan.

As for the 717 action, spend the money with a guitar tech/luthier you trust and get it set up with the action you like. My guitar tech always inspects fret level. Sometimes I've paid a little more for an initial set up as he refines the fret level, no matter how 'reasonable' it may be when brand new. That insures the best possible action that works for me and my guitars always come back from my tech better than when I started. Maybe I shouldn't have to do so, but its worth it to me.

Great points. I am taking the 517 to a Taylor Service tech this weekend so that they can give me their "diagnosis" on the scratch/crack on the back. Basically, since I can feel it with my finger, it can't be a great thing honestly. Not that the guitar is going to implode, but it will probably need a repair of some kind. I've been told that I can make the decision on whether to keep it or get a replacement from Taylor. I don't particularly think my 517 is a special one per se, so if the guitar needs a repair that requires it to be out of my possession or anything over a week, I'm going to get a replacement.

I just think that I want to worry about shipping a guitar back to Taylor with a finish issue and be without it for weeks when they can ship me a replacement next week.

[Shades of Blue]

I did a little more experimenting/playing last night, and I used a decibel meter app to measure the difference in volume between the 517 and 717. This gets interesting....

First up was the 717. Max db was 98.2 with an average of 91db. I tried playing hard, but not any harder than I'd normally play. I thought for sure that the 517 would be much less than that based on perception. The 517 had a max of 94.5db and an average of 90.2db.

Not much difference in the average, but the difference between the max between the 717 and 517 could be explained as the difference between rosewood and mahogany. I've always heard that rosewood is more open and than mahogany is more compressed. This makes a lot of sense given the results. Perhaps rosewood yields more uncompressed spikes in volume, and mahogany is just more even overall.

Regardless, I'm a little shocked because the 717 does seem a lot louder, but it really has to be more related to frequency range. If I had to describe the tone and sound between the 717 and 517 while playing, I would say that the 717 sounds more like a football and the 517 is a baseball. While the 717 sounds fatter and larger, the 517 is harder and carries more velocity/punch.

Terrible analogy, but there you have it folks. Not much difference in average volume, but definitely more volume potential in the 717....at least in my case.

[UncleJesse]

Originally Posted by rmp

I'd like to love these, but the satin finish for me is a massive turn off....

The 317's have a gloss top. I know, not the same as a 717 or 517 but it's an option.

[chasingchet]

wow I havent been here in months and you got 2 beautiful Taylors!!! I remember our 41 discussions...I may be leaning towards my first Taylor.My Martin 41....which is my only guitar is now up for grabs! funny how we change...best guitar I ever owned or played but Im now 90% a fingerstyle player and loving what Im hearing with these Taylors! congrats

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by chasingchet

wow I havent been here in months and you got 2 beautiful Taylors!!! I remember our 41 discussions...I may be leaning towards my first Taylor.My Martin 41....which is my only guitar is now up for grabs! funny how we change...best guitar I ever owned or played but Im now 90% a fingerstyle player and loving what Im hearing with these Taylors! congrats

If you are primarily a fingerstyle player, I can't say that I would recommend the Grand Pacific. My impressions of these guitars is that they are more heavily braced similar to a D-28. They are definitely more aimed at heavy handed blue grass flat pickers and strummers. I have a difficult time really getting a lot of volume and clarity out of these guitars with my fingers alone.

It's just my opinion, and as much as I LOVE my 517 and 717, I definitely think they are better suited for flat picking/strumming. I would look at something more lightly braced.