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  #61  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:43 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Originally Posted by midwinter View Post
I'll give it a shot and go be erratically loud next time I'm there (tonight, probably).

I still want to pick your brain about patchbays and routing.
What time are you getting there? And this guy knows about patchbays... https://www.misterpatchbay.com/index.php
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  #62  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:44 PM
midwinter midwinter is offline
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What time are you getting there?


Dunno. I’m free all day.
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  #63  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:00 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Did you compare against a vintage LA-2a or a reissue???
You misread what I wrote. I compared it to the UAD LA-2A plugin, not the UA LA-2A.

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Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
I would like to compare the Audio Scape Opto against the STAM SA2A. I can't believe that these companies are building gear for such reasonable prices. It seems like the hottest market for recording gear right now is the pro-sumer.
The Stam stuff has a good rep but you can wait a really long time between ordering and receiving.

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Why not include at least one EQ in the outboard so you can get the compressor to react the way you want it (ie side chain)???? If I didn't own my Voxbox (with built in Pultec), I would immediately find at least one good EQ.
I'm not experienced enough to feel confident committing to an eq on the way in, and I don't feel any pressing need to route tracks out and in again to use an outboard eq.

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Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
The real deal outboard stuff is fantastic we should both buy one LA2a clone each. One Stam SA2A, and one AudioScope Opto and compare them and return the loser
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Originally Posted by midwinter View Post
Is that before or after we each buy a UK Sound 1173 and have joint custody?
A friend and I have done that with some things ...flatbed trailer, power washer, wood chipper... things we each need sometimes but not very often. It's worked out pretty well over the years.
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  #64  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:34 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
You misread what I wrote. I compared it to the UAD LA-2A plugin, not the UA LA-2A.


The Stam stuff has a good rep but you can wait a really long time between ordering and receiving.


I'm not experienced enough to feel confident committing to an eq on the way in, and I don't feel any pressing need to route tracks out and in again to use an outboard eq.

.
Right now STAM has the SA2A in stock, and Audio Scope is out of stock

The reason for having the EQ is to get the compressor to compress in a more flattering way and not having it compress frequencies that it doesn't need to. It would be well worth your time to learn this technique. You can practice the art "in the box" with plug ins to see if it would be worth the the money to go with an outboard EQ. if you already know how to do this, disregard my post.
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  #65  
Old 04-04-2018, 03:32 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
Right now STAM has the SA2A in stock, and Audio Scope is out of stock

The reason for having the EQ is to get the compressor to compress in a more flattering way and not having it compress frequencies that it doesn't need to. It would be well worth your time to learn this technique. You can practice the art "in the box" with plug ins to see if it would be worth the the money to go with an outboard EQ. if you already know how to do this, disregard my post.
The Audio-Scape Opto has an HF knob that covers that. Here's the text from their website:
One important addition is the high frequency control(limiter response) was added to the front plate which is very handy. This was a control on the back and set from the factory depending on what the application. This potentiometer was factory set for recording as “flat” side-chain response (clockwise). Increasing the resistance of this potentiometer by turning it counter clockwise will result in compression which is increasingly more sensitive to the higher frequencies. It filters out low frequencies to the T4B module so it compresses the lows less and changes the 'focus' of the compression. Very handy indeed to have up front as the demo video below points out!

The Audio-Scape is the only version I've seen where this control is easily accessible. I'm told Stam put this control on the underside of the unit and you need a screwdriver to adjust it.
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2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

YouTube
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  #66  
Old 04-04-2018, 03:44 PM
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Mbroady Mbroady is offline
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My studio dreams are more about the ability to utilize what I have then getting gear. I do have some nice mics, converters, preamps and now have a decent sounding room.

What I want to achieve is a good representation of my original music.
I have become more adapt at grooving to a click track but still, the live singer songwriter performances (Me my guitar and the mics and just let it roll) sound more natural. I want to achieve that natural feeling while playing to a click. This way I can record and overdub with ease.

But the journey has been been a blast.
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Last edited by Mbroady; 04-04-2018 at 04:00 PM.
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  #67  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:18 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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I want to achieve that natural feeling while playing to a click. This way I can record and overdub with ease.
I think it's something most of us go through. I had a really hard time playing to a click when I first tried but at some point I started getting more comfortable with and now I wouldn't want to record without it. It just makes everything you do afterwards so much easier.
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2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

YouTube
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  #68  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:40 PM
midwinter midwinter is offline
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I think it's something most of us go through. I had a really hard time playing to a click when I first tried but at some point I started getting more comfortable with and now I wouldn't want to record without it. It just makes everything you do afterwards so much easier.
Yep. Almost everything I do is to a click (unless it's not right for the feel) for precisely that reason.
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  #69  
Old 04-04-2018, 06:34 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
The Audio-Scape Opto has an HF knob that covers that. Here's the text from their website:
One important addition is the high frequency control(limiter response) was added to the front plate which is very handy. This was a control on the back and set from the factory depending on what the application. This potentiometer was factory set for recording as “flat” side-chain response (clockwise). Increasing the resistance of this potentiometer by turning it counter clockwise will result in compression which is increasingly more sensitive to the higher frequencies. It filters out low frequencies to the T4B module so it compresses the lows less and changes the 'focus' of the compression. Very handy indeed to have up front as the demo video below points out!

The Audio-Scape is the only version I've seen where this control is easily accessible. I'm told Stam put this control on the underside of the unit and you need a screwdriver to adjust it.
That is a handy adjustment to have on board but surely won’t cover more than 50% of situations I run into. That won’t change the fact that I would really like to audition one of those audio scapes! They look like they’re extremely well-made.
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  #70  
Old 04-04-2018, 06:57 PM
Gordon Currie Gordon Currie is offline
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Originally Posted by Mbroady View Post
I have become more adapt at grooving to a click track but still, the live singer songwriter performances (Me my guitar and the mics and just let it roll) sound more natural. I want to achieve that natural feeling while playing to a click. This way I can record and overdub with ease.
If you don't practice with a metronome, you might try it. It can be shocking how much one naturally drifts. Practicing with a metronome and practicing recording to a click (which is a metronome) will eventually make you into a NATURALLY in-time player. Don't buy into the myth that playing to a click will suck the soul out of your playing. It will merely suck the flabby mushy timing out of your playing, and that will allow your mojo to shine through.
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  #71  
Old 04-04-2018, 07:28 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
That is a handy adjustment to have on board but surely won’t cover more than 50% of situations I run into. That won’t change the fact that I would really like to audition one of those audio scapes! They look like they’re extremely well-made.
It really is very well made. The knobs and toggles are top notch. I had a couple of friends over last night, both have lots of experience with gear, one does production full time. I didn't want to rely on just my own ears but we all agreed the unit was a keeper.
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2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

YouTube
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  #72  
Old 04-04-2018, 08:09 PM
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Mbroady Mbroady is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
I think it's something most of us go through. I had a really hard time playing to a click when I first tried but at some point I started getsting more comfortable with and now I wouldn't want to record without it. It just makes everything you do afterwards so much easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Currie View Post
If you don't practice with a metronome, you might try it. It can be shocking how much one naturally drifts. Practicing with a metronome and practicing recording to a click (which is a metronome) will eventually make you into a NATURALLY in-time player. Don't buy into the myth that playing to a click will suck the soul out of your playing. It will merely suck the flabby mushy timing out of your playing, and that will allow your mojo to shine through.
Yep, at first playing to a click was a rude awakening. One just does not realize how much drift there is.

I have been playing with a click track for around ten months now (playing guitar for 30, writing songs for around 2 years) and my timing has definitely improved.

Playing with a click I think helped me understand my own personal groove-isims, meaning we’re the pocket sits on any particular groove. Sometimes a song calls for pushing the beat or pulling the beat and recording to a click allows you to get a visual representation of that pocket, or lack of. I love seeing why a take feels great or why it ....sucks. But must of all I love when you record and the recording has a vibe without the back up rhythm. That’s when I know I nailed it.
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Rainsong H-WS1000N2T
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  #73  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:20 AM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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Originally Posted by Mbroady View Post
My studio dreams are more about the ability to utilize what I have then getting gear. I do have some nice mics, converters, preamps and now have a decent sounding room.

What I want to achieve is a good representation of my original music.
I have become more adapt at grooving to a click track but still, the live singer songwriter performances (Me my guitar and the mics and just let it roll) sound more natural. I want to achieve that natural feeling while playing to a click. This way I can record and overdub with ease.

But the journey has been been a blast.
Particularly with looser song structures and what serious composers call "through composed" songs, what helps me is to sing a scratch vocal while laying down the guitar track. I make no effort to make the scratch vocal even presentable.

That guitar track can be to a beat or click.

Then when I go to lay down other tracks or a final vocal, I can run that scratch vocal at a very low level mixed off to the side in the monitor mix to serve as guide where I am in the song structure, I'll even sometimes say in the scratch vocal cues like one might say off-mic on stage like "going to the bridge section" or "solo here".

One advantage of this is playing and/or singing in ways that don't lock right to the beat/grid is part of what makes a lot of styles sound "natural." It's still good to have the click or the beat/grid to arbitrate what the "ruler" of the beat is (pun indented). Part of what you may like about your playing when you are just "letting it roll" is that your voice and guitar are interacting. Scratch vocals let you do that, while still allowing a final pass for a "perfect vocal" later.
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  #74  
Old 05-26-2018, 01:59 PM
Yamaha Man Yamaha Man is offline
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I just bought a pair off eBay, thanks for the suggestion, it makes tons of sense.
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