Recording software

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by dominant7th

And every time I think about buying logic Fran comes along and makes me feel that reaper is the one.

Reaper is very nice, and a fantastic deal for the money. I haven't used it much, but I think Logic still beats it on features. Unless it's been added recently, I don't think Reaper has the fast swipe comping, which is an amazing feature. The Logic UI overall is (I think) nicer, there is just about any effect you need, very high quality, all bundled. And if you use loops (I don't) or software instruments (I don't), Logic comes with an amazing collection that's easily worth what the whole system costs.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Reaper is very nice, and a fantastic deal for the money. I haven't used it much, but I think Logic still beats it on features. Unless it's been added recently, I don't think Reaper has the fast swipe comping, which is an amazing feature. The Logic UI overall is (I think) nicer, there is just about any effect you need, very high quality, all bundled. And if you use loops (I don't) or software instruments (I don't), Logic comes with an amazing collection that's easily worth what the whole system costs.

There aren't many definitive's when discussing DAW's but I think it's safe to say in this case that, for the cost and pound for pound, nothing offers more by way of a total package than Logic. It does absolutely everything and it does it well. As Doug mentioned it's a matured GUI, the mixer has a simple flow but easily manipulated, the effects are deep, the sampler is pretty flawless, drum machine is great, the arpeggiator as complex as one could possibly use, the midi is at least as good as DP and maybe better, the included soft synths are wonderful, audio editing is good, finishing and mastering out of the box is great.

Not as easy to edit audio as Pro Tools and not as easy to quickly put together idea's as Reason but this has got to be king of value right now. I'm curious where Apple is gonna go with this?

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

...
I'm curious where Apple is gonna go with [Logic]?

Apple will acquire Avid, including ProTools, and will merge Logic and ProTools into one monster.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

Apple will acquire Avid, including ProTools, and will merge Logic and ProTools into one monster.

That would indeed be interesting (if not a bit scary) to say the least, but maybe Apple could at least figure out how to get Avid HD Hardware Core Audio drivers, to play iTunes and FCPX

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

Apple will acquire Avid, including ProTools, and will merge Logic and ProTools into one monster.

I'm not a business man by any measure but it would outwardly appear that Avid
is struggling mightily. We knew a decade ago that native systems would one day mimic the card base systems. It's only a matter of time now and one can't help but wonder how Avid planned for the changes, if at all. I'd like to think the recent round of substantial layoffs were a componant of a leaner, software based (less hardware, specifically the cards) company moving forward and not a dying gasp. Maybe it's a bit of both?

As far as Apple is concerned I wouldn't see where that would be advantageous to anyone. The codes can't be merged and Apple has already discovered how time and resource consuming redesigning the GUI from the old e-Magic Logic days was. With the exception of Pro Tools audio editing superiority the two DAW's are nearly identically capable.

Adobe Premiere really has presented the only real alternative to Avid's video editor as Final Cut seems to have slipped from any genuine contention. I could see Adobe positioning Premiere and Adobe Pro Tools as a powerhouse dual solution with better audio to video and video to audio integration.

[dominant7th]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

I'm not a business man by any measure but it would outwardly appear that Avid
is struggling mightily. We knew a decade ago that native systems would one day mimic the card base systems. It's only a matter of time now and one can't help but wonder how Avid planned for the changes, if at all. I'd like to think the recent round of substantial layoffs were a componant of a leaner, software based (less hardware, specifically the cards) company moving forward and not a dying gasp. Maybe it's a bit of both?

As far as Apple is concerned I wouldn't see where that would be advantageous to anyone. The codes can't be merged and Apple has already discovered how time and resource consuming redesigning the GUI from the old e-Magic Logic days was. With the exception of Pro Tools audio editing superiority the two DAW's are nearly identically capable.

Adobe Premiere really has presented the only real alternative to Avid's video editor as Final Cut seems to have slipped from any genuine contention. I could see Adobe positioning Premiere and Adobe Pro Tools as a powerhouse dual solution with better audio to video and video to audio integration.

And that horrible method of 'owning' the software on a monthly basis. Adobe's subscription model has priced me out of the market and I still use my older versions of the creative suite.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

I'm not a business man by any measure but it would outwardly appear that Avid
is struggling mightily. We knew a decade ago that native systems would one day mimic the card base systems. It's only a matter of time now and one can't help but wonder how Avid planned for the changes, if at all. I'd like to think the recent round of substantial layoffs were a componant of a leaner, software based (less hardware, specifically the cards) company moving forward and not a dying gasp. Maybe it's a bit of both?

As far as Apple is concerned I wouldn't see where that would be advantageous to anyone. The codes can't be merged and Apple has already discovered how time and resource consuming redesigning the GUI from the old e-Magic Logic days was. With the exception of Pro Tools audio editing superiority the two DAW's are nearly identically capable.

Adobe Premiere really has presented the only real alternative to Avid's video editor as Final Cut seems to have slipped from any genuine contention. I could see Adobe positioning Premiere and Adobe Pro Tools as a powerhouse dual solution with better audio to video and video to audio integration.

So out of curiosity and understanding you work in Post, At your work are you running PTHD Native , HDX, or are you still on the old PT HD format ?

[Psalad]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

Adobe Premiere really has presented the only real alternative to Avid's video editor as Final Cut seems to have slipped from any genuine contention. I could see Adobe positioning Premiere and Adobe Pro Tools as a powerhouse dual solution with better audio to video and video to audio integration.

It's kind of a strange time in the world of audio and video post.

Steinberg/Nuendo was really seeming to gain some ground but I haven't heard much about them lately. Not sure what's up. I was a Cubase user for a long time but switched to Logic to collaborate with a musical partner and never looked back.

Where I work I had a couple of Pro Tools licenses but I let those expire and replaced them with Logic. I don't find Pro Tools any faster than Logic anymore... at first, yes, but when I got used to it nope.

I also got very tired of my AVID hardware boxes expiring.

We were a FCP 7 shop for a long time as well, but when the switch to FCPX happened my editors didn't like it so we moved to Premiere Pro. Avid wasn't a realistic option due to price/performance. We only have 6 seats.

I'm not a big fan of Adobe's subscription model for one main reason.. I can't tell you the number of times, after installing an upgrade to creative cloud, I found it was creating incompatible project files with previous versions. That's how they get you, how they ensure you keep upgrading. It's been a long time since the standalone Adobe suite would work with CC project files, and it's really a very annoying situation.

But FCPX still doesn't resonate with my team, and AVID is still not an option due to cost.

I will agree for audio there doesn't appear to be a better package than Logic for price performance. Lately they have really upped the game with Drummer and revamped dynamics plugins.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by KevWind

So out of curiosity and understanding you work in Post, At your work are you running PTHD Native , HDX, or are you still on the old PT HD format ?

All 4 bays are running HDX as of late last year but as I was discussing the other evening there's not a single HDX (multi channel DSP) plug-in instantiated on the entirety of our templates. They're all AAX native plug-in's. There was a time in the not too distant past that I couldn't get through the day without the cards but I buck that trend now daily.

Also it should be noted that most of the audio staff here for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is time restraints, tend to use destructive processing (AudioSuite). The nature of Post Production which is most often 1000 bits and pieces of mashed-up regions rather than the linear nature of strictly music tracks makes processing globally (aux sends and returns) difficult. Even dialog recorded in the same room tends to morph and change over time and a set eq would prove useless. We tend to proceed one region at a time.

I'm glad I have the cards (just in case) but with the new MacPro's the system never even remotely hints at bogging down. I think for most in Post here in L.A. the loss of Pro Tools software would hurt more than the loss of Pro Tools hardware.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Psalad

It's kind of a strange time in the world of audio and video post.

Steinberg/Nuendo was really seeming to gain some ground but I haven't heard much about them lately. Not sure what's up. I was a Cubase user for a long time but switched to Logic to collaborate with a musical partner and never looked back.

Where I work I had a couple of Pro Tools licenses but I let those expire and replaced them with Logic. I don't find Pro Tools any faster than Logic anymore... at first, yes, but when I got used to it nope.

I also got very tired of my AVID hardware boxes expiring.

We were a FCP 7 shop for a long time as well, but when the switch to FCPX happened my editors didn't like it so we moved to Premiere Pro. Avid wasn't a realistic option due to price/performance. We only have 6 seats.

I'm not a big fan of Adobe's subscription model for one main reason.. I can't tell you the number of times, after installing an upgrade to creative cloud, I found it was creating incompatible project files with previous versions. That's how they get you, how they ensure you keep upgrading. It's been a long time since the standalone Adobe suite would work with CC project files, and it's really a very annoying situation.

But FCPX still doesn't resonate with my team, and AVID is still not an option due to cost.

I will agree for audio there doesn't appear to be a better package than Logic for price performance. Lately they have really upped the game with Drummer and revamped dynamics plugins.

Logic still doesn't do audio editing like Pro Tools. It's probably the last really pragmatic advantage Pro Tools holds.

The fact remains however that compatibility between facilities, between bays, between audio engineers and between audio and video engineers is still undeniably paramount here in Hollywood. As I mentioned earlier I wouldn't ever consider an engineer that could only use Logic no matter how good he or she might be. The deadlines here are deadly and I fight the ticking of the clock each and everyday. Session are flung back and forth seemingly endlessly between all sorts of folks. One Logic guy in the middle of the frey would be disastrous!

[Psalad]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

Logic still doesn't do audio editing like Pro Tools. It's probably the last really pragmatic advantage Pro Tools holds.

No they operate differently but they do the same thing.. I've found the adjustment took me a bit of time but I'm just as fast now in Logic. I'm not sure it's a Pro Tools advantage... I guess PT might be a bit more intuitive, so maybe there you are right.

The fact remains however that compatibility between facilities, between bays, between audio engineers and between audio and video engineers is still undeniably paramount here in Hollywood.

I can totally see that, and it makes complete sense in your environment. In my little corporate environment we actually don't need to do that much in a separate audio tool. In Premiere Pro I can do most of the sweetening I need to do. The only exception is noise reduction/de-reverb/etc which we do in Izotope.

I understand completely why your workflow is preferable, and that does bode well for Avid over the long term I think.

[Psalad]

One more thing, for a long while the real difference between the DSP based Pro Tools installations was latency, but with my new Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface latency is not a problem, even going through a plugin or two.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Psalad

One more thing, for a long while the real difference between the DSP based Pro Tools installations was latency, but with my new Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface latency is not a problem, even going through a plugin or two.

No you're absolute right. One of the card based systems biggest selling points. How quickly I forget Latency not a big worry for me but the big sound stage guys and gals I'd imagine sweat phasing issues on output.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

No you're absolute right. One of the card based systems biggest selling points. How quickly I forget Latency not a big worry for me but the big sound stage guys and gals I'd imagine sweat phasing issues on output.

Yes it does seem that most of the medium to big recording facilities are running HDX
It would be interesting to know what the actual sales numbers of HDX systems has been since it came out.

And the other interesting thing of note is how other Audio hardware companies have also jumped on DSP processing designed to bring DSP to native DAW systems, UAD, Waves, and TC Electronics to name three . Which are not cheap but are less costly than an Avid HDX system. I am guessing these units find a market in smaller recording facilities

[Andy Howell]

Logic for me. Great value, professional and pretty easy to pick up. I use it for everything.