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  #16  
Old 07-12-2019, 09:48 AM
Melt in the Sun Melt in the Sun is offline
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I'll throw in another vote for the X20 being not quite as loud as a dread. Not a huge difference between my englemann-topped Taylor dread, but it was noticeable.
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  #17  
Old 07-12-2019, 09:50 AM
Tf Tf is offline
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Originally Posted by PTL View Post
So a question for you X20 owners who also own the likes of full sized Martin, Taylors, Gibsons and others of such ilk, subjectively speaking do you feel that that the X20 produces as much, same, or less volume than your wood instruments of like size?

Thanks.
Last year I recorded my X20 together with a Martin OM-28 2018, fingerpicking and flatpicking (I deleted it since then, it wasnt worth the file size anyway ). The main objective was to check if the side soundhole on the X20 was giving the player the actual sound heard by the audience.
My conclusion was that both instruments were (subjectively) equally loud, and while the X20 sounded better to my ears than the Martin when played, I gave the Martin a slight edge over the Emerald tone wise when recorded a few meters away.
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  #18  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Tf View Post
Last year I recorded my X20 together with a Martin OM-28 2018, fingerpicking and flatpicking (I deleted it since then, it wasnt worth the file size anyway ). The main objective was to check if the side soundhole on the X20 was giving the player the actual sound heard by the audience.
My conclusion was that both instruments were (subjectively) equally loud, and while the X20 sounded better to my ears than the Martin when played, I gave the Martin a slight edge over the Emerald tone wise when recorded a few meters away.
Yeah, to me that offset soundhole is a huge part of the appeal of current Emeralds. When I first got an X20, I had a Martin 000-15M. The X20 sounded better and significantly louder than the Martin - TO ME. But recording, the difference in volume was much MUCH smaller. Then I got an older model X7 (with the front facing soundhole) and it was a good sounding guitar, but SOOO quiet. And of course, when recorded, it was only a little bit less loud than the X20. But in every other respect I actually preferred it to the X20, so I got a new model X7, which does have the offset soundhole. And it's awesome - my perfect guitar. I sold my other acoustics.

Point being the offset soundhole doesn't make the guitar louder or better sounding, but it makes it both louder and better sounding to the PLAYER. As I am often my whole audience, that MATTERS, to me at least. I'm sure a well designed soundport in a more traditional guitar with a center-soundhole would do the same thing, but I've never played one. I'm sure my old D28 may have been louder than the X20, but to me as a player, the X20 sounded louder. And very similar too FWIW. If you're plugging in, I'm sure this offset soundhole is much much less important, maybe totally irrelevant. But for playing acoustically and hearing yourself, it makes a HUGE difference.
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  #19  
Old 07-12-2019, 05:18 PM
TheChicagoTodd TheChicagoTodd is offline
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Interesting to note in the new July shipping video, Alistair comments, for a reason that he doesn't fully explain), that the nylon string guitars with a woody top are at about 90% of a pure carbon fiber nylon string guitar.

Interesting....

Cheers...

Todd in Chicago
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  #20  
Old 07-12-2019, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by TheChicagoTodd View Post
Interesting to note in the new July shipping video, Alistair comments, for a reason that he doesn't fully explain), that the nylon string guitars with a woody top are at about 90% of a pure carbon fiber nylon string guitar.

Interesting....

Cheers...

Todd in Chicago
My interpretation: for a steel string, they can get carbon + veneer to the same thickness as carbon alone. For nylon, the carbon is already thinner, and there's only so thin a veneer can go - so the thickness of the combination is less than optimal for nylon.

Makes sense to me
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  #21  
Old 07-12-2019, 06:15 PM
EvanB EvanB is offline
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I think the CF makers are 10% away from figuring out how to produce a top (and maybe bracing) that resonate with nylon. A new medium represents new problems. Alistair is a problem solver. My electric, thin-bodied X7 is remarkably resonate--even when played acoustically. I have no idea why. The in-process thin-bodied electric 10 will be interesting.
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  #22  
Old 07-12-2019, 06:26 PM
TheChicagoTodd TheChicagoTodd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatswodo View Post
My interpretation: for a steel string, they can get carbon + veneer to the same thickness as carbon alone. For nylon, the carbon is already thinner, and there's only so thin a veneer can go - so the thickness of the combination is less than optimal for nylon.



Makes sense to me
Ahhhhh....ok. I had no idea the cf was thinner on the nylon series.

The way u explain it does make sense.

Cheers...

Todd in Chicago
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  #23  
Old 07-13-2019, 08:58 AM
EvanB EvanB is offline
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"There's only so thin that a veneer can go." Does carbon fiber come in variable thinness?
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  #24  
Old 07-13-2019, 11:56 AM
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"There's only so thin that a veneer can go." Does carbon fiber come in variable thinness?
I just found this as an example - looks like the weave/fabric does come in different thicknesses. I assume its laminated to make a guitar, thus allowing the thickness to be controlled.

https://www.rockwestcomposites.com/m...n-fiber-fabric

A lot of assumptions there, of course.
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  #25  
Old 07-13-2019, 02:58 PM
EvanB EvanB is offline
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Eatswodo;

Thanks for the information. You answered the question regarding thinness and you also opened my eyes regarding a large number of possible weaves. Also, in the sample packet I see colored samples; got to wonder how those would look on a guitar.
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  #26  
Old 07-15-2019, 09:04 AM
Fixedgear60 Fixedgear60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatswodo View Post
I just found this as an example - looks like the weave/fabric does come in different thicknesses. I assume its laminated to make a guitar, thus allowing the thickness to be controlled.

https://www.rockwestcomposites.com/m...n-fiber-fabric

A lot of assumptions there, of course.
Thanks for the info... this makes sense as our CF Luthers explore thickness and responsiveness.. the next frontier is different weaves ... not unlike different wood densities and grains... I think I read or heard on a YouTube that this is what McPherson is doing with the different weaves they are now offering. They are experimenting with more than cosmetics....

On a similar note... they decided to go with a pre-molded back and sides because they could not get a consistent sound quality with carbon layered fabrics because the epoxy would not always flow and conform consistently creating dead spots at times. They decided with a "special" recipe of carbon and polymers to form a consistent back and side for constant sound quality.

Not sure how much of this is marketing ... but do like their sound!!!
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  #27  
Old 07-15-2019, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixedgear60 View Post
Thanks for the info... this makes sense as our CF Luthers explore thickness and responsiveness.. the next frontier is different weaves ... not unlike different wood densities and grains... I think I read or heard on a YouTube that this is what McPherson is doing with the different weaves they are now offering. They are experimenting with more than cosmetics....
There have been references to using different weaves in recent Emerald shipping/stock videos as well - primarily for cosmetic reasons, IIRC. I'd be surprised if there weren't sound and structural implications and possibilities as well.
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  #28  
Old 07-15-2019, 10:06 AM
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Fwiw, my X20 is at least as loud as my 814ce, probably more.
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