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  #31  
Old 11-24-2021, 04:53 AM
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Brent Hutto Brent Hutto is offline
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There's no way Wegens are made of casein. Totally different sound, feel, stiffness, they shape differently with sandpaper, everything about them basically.
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  #32  
Old 11-24-2021, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
Are they ?

I do have one it is a blue speckled 346 in 1.4 m/m

I think I had to add he bevels. It is very stiff,so, a little dead to me. like the Dunlop Primetones.

Maybe I don't need to try/buy the D'addario Chris Thile after all!

I had always assumed that Wegens were casein, but he won't let on.
Andy, Wegens are definitely not casein. My best guess would be Delrin/Acetal.

I'll tell you and the other folks reading here something very interesting about the casein market.

Because it cannot be injection-molded, almost every major casein plastic manufacturer in the world has gone out of business. To the best of my knowledge, there are only two companies on the planet who are actively producing professional-grade casein plastic sheets.

However, there is a TON of inventory out there from old stock, some of it 40-50 years old. It is hard to find, and most people don't know about it.

Believe it or not, through some strange amalgam of molecular science and time, this older casein sounds demonstrably better than present-day casein. It is stunningly good. I have no idea how this could be.

In the next twenty years, all casein production will likely cease, and it will pass into history.

scott memmer
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Last edited by Charmed Life Picks; 11-24-2021 at 10:22 AM.
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  #33  
Old 11-24-2021, 10:40 AM
KESTLY KESTLY is offline
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Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks View Post
Andy, Wegens are definitely not casein. My best guess would be Delrin/Acetal.

I'll tell you and the other folks reading here something very interesting about the casein market.

Because it cannot be injection-molded, almost every major casein plastic manufacturer in the world has gone out of business. To the best of my knowledge, there are only two companies on the planet who are actively producing professional-grade casein plastic sheets.

However, there is a TON of inventory out there from old stock, some of it 40-50 years old. It is hard to find, and most people don't know about it.

Believe it or not, through some strange amalgam of molecular science and time, this older casein sounds demonstrably better than present-day casein. It is stunningly good. I have no idea how this could be.

In the next twenty years, all casein production will likely cease, and it will pass into history.

scott memmer
Scott,
Where do we go to buy a pick that is made from this older casein? Is this the stock that you use for your picks?
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  #34  
Old 11-24-2021, 10:56 AM
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Scott,
Where do we go to buy a pick that is made from this older casein? Is this the stock that you use for your picks?
KESTLY, as a long-time sponsor on AGF, we work hard not to sales pitch in the General Discussion area. I just love informing and educating people -- and I LOVE research, which fits with my training as an English professor. I'm proud to say I probably know more about industrial plastics, casein, etc. than anyone in the pick industry. I'm even prouder that I freely recommend other pick companies and vendors. This would make my dad very proud. (I've been told by many that I'm the only one in the industry who does this.) It's just the way my dad raised me.

I've been obsessed with picks and plastics for more than forty years. Please PM me, if you don't mind. I promise to be impartial and non-partisan.

We discovered this stuff way back in 2016. Nik at Apollo Picks is doing some beautiful work in this material as well. He's the only one I'm aware of in the pick industry who knows about this stuff.

Best to You,
Scott
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Last edited by Charmed Life Picks; 11-24-2021 at 11:15 AM.
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  #35  
Old 11-24-2021, 11:19 AM
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Scott,
Where do we go to buy a pick that is made from this older casein? Is this the stock that you use for your picks?
Had to ask, right?

I own a couple Charmed Life casein picks, and they are definitely unique. It's worth giving them a try.
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  #36  
Old 11-24-2021, 04:04 PM
Robin, Wales Robin, Wales is offline
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I have shaped up a casein pick this evening from a block of the stuff. I really like my Wegen M100, so I copied the shape. This one is 1.5mm but, having played it, I think that I'll take it down to around 1.2 and re-polish it.

BTW - I have been wondering if Wegen picks were made from an industrial hard nylon of the type that's used for bearing surfaces.
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  #37  
Old 11-24-2021, 05:02 PM
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Robin - if I may trouble you, how do you go about getting a thin slice from the block?
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  #38  
Old 11-24-2021, 05:39 PM
Robin, Wales Robin, Wales is offline
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Robin - if I may trouble you, how do you go about getting a thin slice from the block?
I just used a hand mitre saw, the type that sit in a frame, to cut a slice. This one started about 1.8mm thick. I tack glued a pick of the shape I wanted to the slice and used a grinding wheel to get to the rough outline, and then used a diamond hand file to close shape the pick. Then worked up from 800 to 7000 wet & dry to get the thickness and polish. The final finish was with Never Dull, the German polishing wadding.
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  #39  
Old 11-24-2021, 05:51 PM
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Thanks Robin 🙏
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  #40  
Old 11-24-2021, 06:24 PM
Retired1 Retired1 is offline
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I suspect the material Wegen uses is the same as dentists use to make an impression of a tooth or teeth - comes in powder form - my guess.
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  #41  
Old 11-25-2021, 02:49 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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I just googled Casein picks and found this on "another" Acoustic guitar forum from 2011:

I do not advise anything and suggest great caution:

I do not propose to try it myself,

=========

How to Make Casein for Plastic Guitar Picks

To make casein for guitar picks, musicians will need just two cups of milk and two tablespoons of vinegar. After following a few simple steps, they will turn these two ingredients into plastic.

1. Pour 2 cups of milk into a sauce pan.

2. Heat the milk on low stirring constantly to prevent burning or boiling.

3. When the milk is warm, add 2 tablespoons of vinegar and continue to stir for several more minutes.

As soon as the vinegar is mixed with the milk, musicians will notice an amazing transformation. The milk separates into a clear liquid and floating white flakes. This white material is the casein.

To separate the floating plastic from the hot liquid, musicians will need a strainer. They can line the bottom of the strainer with paper towels and then pour the warm mixture slowly, allowing time for the liquid to filter through.

Allow the casein to cool for a few minutes before handling it. When the plastic is a comfortable temperature, musicians will need to squeeze as much liquid out of it as possible.

Products formed with casein need around two or three days to dry. Store unused plastic in a zip-lock bag or other air-tight container.

How to Make a Guitar Plectrum with Casein

Casein can be shaped by hand, but remains somewhat flaky until completely dry. For this reason, it may prove easier to form guitar picks using a mold.

The easiest way to make a mold requires a small piece of sheet metal, some tin snips, and pliers. Once a mold is made, it can be used to create as many picks as desired.

1.Select a favorite pick that is a preferred size and shape.

2.Place the pick on its side on the end of the sheet metal then roll it along to determine the length of metal needed to wrap around it.

3.Make a mark then use tin snips to cut the metal.

4.Use pliers to bend the scrap of metal around the pick to create what looks like a pick-shaped cookie cutter.

Making the Casein Guitar Picks

Whether shaping the casein by hand or pressing it into a mold, you will want to leave you picks slightly thicker to accommodate for sanding and finishing. They’ll have enough casein to experiment with several shapes and thicknesses. It’s a good idea to try a variety since every nuance of a pick—the point or roundedness of its tip, its thickness, and its shape—greatly effect playability.

Once the picks are formed, you should put them in an out-of-the-way spot and leave them alone for several days. When the picks are dry, they can be buffed up with coarse sand paper. Finishing touches may include smoothing and beveling edges or tapering points on thicker picks.

Casein picks have a pleasantly dark tone compared to other plastic plectrums. It’s hard to believe, but the material which days earlier was simply milk and vinegar, can now stand up to steel guitar strings.
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  #42  
Old 11-25-2021, 10:16 AM
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Andy, thanks for posting that. In the real, industrialized production of casein plastic, the final stage not listed there is required to toughen and solidify the material and make it strong enough to be used as a guitar pick.

After the casein hardens, it must be placed in a formaldehyde bath for a number of months. The thicker the material, the longer the bath. This is not as scary or toxic as you might think, as the bath is typically only 5-10% formaldehyde, the rest water

There's some weire molecular switheroo that occurs during the bath between the casein and the fluid. It ends up being much stronger. Also, there is no formaldehyde left in the plastic, as the chemical bond removes it, and any remaining washes off after removing it from the bath. Strange.

Through many years of research, I was able to locate the original manufacturing process for casein, just in case. But it requires a lot of space and special equipment that I don't have. Quite involved.

sm
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See photos of our new red casein teardrop inlaid with genuine Mother-of-Pearl, an industry first:
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=621274
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  #43  
Old 11-25-2021, 10:31 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks View Post
Andy, thanks for posting that. In the real, industrialized production of casein plastic, the final stage not listed there is required to toughen and solidify the material and make it strong enough to be used as a guitar pick.

After the casein hardens, it must be placed in a formaldehyde bath for a number of months. The thicker the material, the longer the bath. This is not as scary or toxic as you might think, as the bath is typically only 5-10% formaldehyde, the rest water

There's some weire molecular switheroo that occurs during the bath between the casein and the fluid. It ends up being much stronger. Also, there is no formaldehyde left in the plastic, as the chemical bond removes it, and any remaining washes off after removing it from the bath. Strange.

Through many years of research, I was able to locate the original manufacturing process for casein, just in case. But it requires a lot of space and special equipment that I don't have. Quite involved.

sm
Oh Scot, right! and here was me thinking that I'd knock up a few picks in the saucepan after I'd dished up some

"scramble - deggs" this evening.

Nanny Jane ain't gonna wait that long fer her favourite saucepan!
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I'm here to help and advise only

By request, I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom! See: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=589058

https://www.youtube.com/user/SillyMoustache/videos
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  #44  
Old 11-25-2021, 02:08 PM
elrjay elrjay is offline
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Agree. Stickiness to fingers is a major factor which is hard to gauge without actually trying the pick. A sticky pick is a must have.
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  #45  
Old 11-25-2021, 05:48 PM
bufflehead bufflehead is offline
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Agree. Stickiness to fingers is a major factor which is hard to gauge without actually trying the pick. A sticky pick is a must have.
That may be the category that Andy missed: grip.

Grip can be augmented by sculpting, adding texture, drilling holes, or it may be integral to the material itself. To me, regardless, it's crucial.
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Last edited by bufflehead; 11-25-2021 at 06:17 PM.
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