Ancient Glacial Sitka Spruce soundboards (~2750 yrs old)

[Kahobbs]

Steve, think about this with a set of the tree, and your new shaded top to make the two harmonious!

[Joel Teel]

Originally Posted by GaultierRedon14

Well, I can only afford so much at one time, but eventually, I plan to build something with both sets. Right now, I'm trying to decide between using my Snakewood back/sides set and my Bois de Rose back/sides set, to go with this amazing Ancient Glacier Sitka spruce soundboard. I will only ever have this one set of Ancient Sitka, so it's a once in a lifetime choice! The Snakewood and Bois de Rose tonewood sets are both tonally and visually spectacular, "rare-as-unicorns" specimens and worthy of being paired with the Ancient Sitka.
Either way, with Steve's expert craftmanship, I'm sure it'll be quite an instrument!

I've seen them both next to the Ancient Sitka, and each set would be a fine build. I do lean ever so slightly in one direction, though I won't say which because I don't want to complicate your decision any more than it already is.
Interestingly...there is a concert-size set of Ancient Sitka currently available, which would make the other build a reality...producing a set of fraternal twins who share their rare soundboard DNA. Just a thought...

[GaultierRedon14]

Well, you're welcome to share your opinion on which tonewood set you like better. It's fine with me.
For now, I'm sticking with this one set of the Ancient Sitka--I'm sure someone else will snap up that last set before I'd decide to buy it. It does have beautiful mineral coloring in it, though! Ultimately, I'm a player, not a collector, and one is enough for me!
I think I'm leaning towards the Bois de Rose. I think it will work well--it will be dark and understated since it has perfect straight grain and fairly even coloring. That will match well with the dark and striking appearance of the ancient Sitka. The Snakewood might be fighting for attention since it is such a boldly-patterned, exotic-looking wood, although it would be quite fine. I think the Snakewood would make it's own special guitar. Pairing it with the Ancient Sitka is almost too over-the-top exotic for it's own good! But of course, I may very well end up choosing it anyways! I'm just rambling here...
With the Bois de Rose, I can use either Lignum Vitae for the bindings and bevels, or also use Bois de Rose since I have a lot of extra pieces of it. I'm rooting for the Lignum, because I think it is probably the coolest-looking wood there is. Aside from being the hardest/densest wood in the world, it has a naturally "aged" or "ancient" look, and would complement the ancient Sitka top very nicely.
Tonally, either set should work well. Steve just raved about the tap tone of the Bois de Rose set when I sent it to him--easily comparable to a good Brazilian tap. He also said the Snakewood set has an outstanding tap tone--endless sustain, deep "subsonic" resonance. Well, I shouldn't speak for him--he can chime in if he'd like with his impressions. What were your impressions, Wood Knot? Do you have any pictures to post?? I'd love to see them!

[GaultierRedon14]

I thought I should kindly post a few pictures of the tonewoods in question for everyone to see.
The plan is to build an Edwinson "Performance" model--Steve Sheriff's largest body size with a 16 3/16" wide lower bout. I should note that the Snakewood set would need a small wedge in the back (three-piece back) about 1" or 1 1.5" wide at the bottom. This is no problem.

You're all welcome to share your opinion...

So again, here is my (only) set of the Ancient Glacier Sitka Spruce--



Here is the picture of the Snakewood tonewood set--yes, it looks a bit sickly and "underwhelming" in this picture, but if you've seen a nice Snakewood fretboard, you know it will look great under finish!


Here is the Bois de Rose tonewood set--it may not seem impressive in it's raw form here, but under finish, this should have a deep, luxurious burgundy/purpleish color.


A close up of one of the Bois de Rose sides--


And, just to add to the fun/confusion, I also have this special set of Cocobolo, which would also pair nicely with the Ancient Sitka--(Steve is probably rolling his eyes at this point)
In terms of pure "exotica", this Coco isn't in the same league as the other two, but it's still a worthy contender.


Finally, here is a picture I found of Lignum Vitae. This is the type of wood I'm considering for the bindings on the guitar. It will also have an arm and rib bevel, and a bevel on the florentine cutaway. These would also be Lignum.

[Nemoman]

GR14--I'm in agreement with you on using the Bois de Rose. It's beautiful wood with nice even grain, so it wouldn't compete visually with the Ancient Sitka. I think it would be a really striking guitar. I'd go with dark bindings like ebony and maybe some maple purflings to give a really sharp contrast between all the woods--just my 2 cents. Looking forward to seeing Steve work his magic with whatever you decide upon!

[theEdwinson]

I have some more photos to add to to this- the Snakewood, Glacial Sitka, and my stick of Lignum, all together, and also the same combo, but with the Bois de Rose in place of the Snakewood. I've been so slammed with extra duties lately, I haven't had a chance to download the photos yet. Later today, I will post them here.
Gaultier, I want to tell you that Joel and I were both really impressed with the way these woods play together- all of them- because the warm/cool colors of the back and side sets with that Glacial Sitka come together with stunning harmony when you add the Lignum elements. The Lignum is both a cool green/blue, and warmer reddish; so it balances nicely with the others.

I want to send out a shout out to Brent Cole, owner of Alaska Specialty Woods, for finding this incredible ancient Sitka, and making it available. It's got some fantastic charisma, if you can apply that word to tonewood. Brent has the finest Sitka, and other tonewoods native to Alaska, that I've ever seen. His grading is the fairest I've ever seen too, and his prices and service are excellent. Brent, and ASW, both get my highest endorsement. Good man, great products. You won't find anything better than what Brent has to offer. http://alaskawoods.com/

[thurston_pie]

Originally Posted by Wood Knot

Hello all...

I've got some really unique Sitka soundboards that I bought last year. They are from a tree that was unearthed during the excavation of ASW's new production facility in Craig, Alaska. A sample of the tree was sent to a testing facility, and
through radio carbon testing, it was determined that this tree was entombed during a landslide ~2850 years ago. The tree was ~250 years old when it died..... so this tree germinated and began its life on the Earth in 1100 BC.

Think about this for a minute...and if you're so enclined, check out this timeline for a history lesson and a better understanding of the historical significance of these soundboards.

http://www.millingtonumconthefox.org...dtestrev7.html

These boards, due to the mineralized glacial flour which saturated the log over the past 2850 years, oxidized to a beautiful silvery-blue color.

Brent and Annette at Alaska Specialty Wood are some really great people, and I appreciate the opportunity that they gave me to purchase the four Dread sets that I have...which are spectacular. I've hidden them away, and plan to hold on to them. It is my understanding that this log has yielded fewer than a dozen dread-sized sets, of which two remain available (along with a smaller-bodied set). They are displayed on ASW's Facebook page, and can be ordered from their website...

http://www.alaskawoods.com/products....=Ancient_Sitka

I've been blessed with the opportunity to own four of these magnificent soundboards, and thought that someone here might also find the historical significance found within them to be irresistible.

Joel

Its a nice story. Interesting looking wood. The mechanics of how a log might somehow become impregnated with glacial sediment imbuing it with magical tonal characteristics are a little sketchy though. I'm pretty familiar with this area, and glaciology in Alaska in general.

OTH, I recall reading someone once theorizing that the tonal characteristics of the old Cremona violin tops was a result of raw logs laying in those turbid sediment laden coastal adriatic estuaries.

Also, for the log to have lasted this long without decaying it indicates it would have to have been essentially sealed in an anoxic condition, this isn't totally unheard of but usually "artifacts" like this, when "liberated" and exposed to air fall apart pretty quickly, very interesting how well those top cuts are holding up. Who did the dating work?

[Silly Moustache]

Two thousand seven hundred and fifty years old eh? .................................................. .................................................. ............................. cough .................................................. ................................................

Happy birthday to yew
Happy Birthday to yew
Happy birthday dear (glacial sitka)
Happy Birthday to yew.

Didja "seed" what i did there ?

Thought you wood.

[GaultierRedon14]

This certificate for these "ancient Sitka spruce" soundboards indicates the results of the "Beta Analytic Carbon Dating".


This is a page from the laboratory report indicating the (identical) results:


This is the website of the laboratory where the analysis was performed:
http://www.radiocarbon.com/

I'm generally skeptical of such claims myself, and I'm no expert on these matters. The laboratory which did the analysis seems to be a legitimate operation, and the people at Alaska Specialty Woods seem like honest people, so I'm willing to accept the results of the testing.
Regarding the tone, I don't think anyone is really claiming that these tops are imbued with some kind of super-charged, sitka-on-steroids (i.e. "superior") tonal qualities, however, there *may* be some "unique" quality to their tone due to their age and/or mineral deposits, at least from what I've read/heard. Speaking for myself, I'm interested in using the ancient Sitka more for it's unique and organic beauty (my opinion, of course!), fascinating story, and rarity. As long as it ends up sounding at least as good as another high-quality Sitka spruce soundboard, I'll be happy.

[GaultierRedon14]

Hi Nemoman,

Thanks for the comments. I agree that ebony binding would work perfectly with the Bois de Rose. I'm still waiting to consider the Lignum Vitae first, though. I just love that wood, and I hope the color will work. Steve and I will figure it out eventually.
Your new Stehr is incredible! I love how the cocobolo bindings match the color in the Brazilian! Joel did a fantastic job. Congratulations and enjoy!

[thurston_pie]

Originally Posted by GaultierRedon14

This certificate for these "ancient Sitka spruce" soundboards indicates the results of the "Beta Analytic Carbon Dating".


This is a page from the laboratory report indicating the (identical) results:


This is the website of the laboratory where the analysis was performed:
http://www.radiocarbon.com/

I'm generally skeptical of such claims myself, and I'm no expert on these matters. The laboratory which did the analysis seems to be a legitimate operation, and the people at Alaska Specialty Woods seem like honest people, so I'm willing to accept the results of the testing.
Regarding the tone, I don't think anyone is really claiming that these tops are imbued with some kind of super-charged, sitka-on-steroids (i.e. "superior") tonal qualities, however, there *may* be some "unique" quality to their tone due to their age and/or mineral deposits, at least from what I've read/heard. Speaking for myself, I'm interested in using the ancient Sitka more for it's unique and organic beauty (my opinion, of course!), fascinating story, and rarity. As long as it ends up sounding at least as good as another high-quality Sitka spruce soundboard, I'll be happy.

If those tops are the same wood as the sample its definitely miraculous. I think dendro is really better for this kind of dating, but two standard dev calibration C14 is pretty spiffy.

In my mind this whole branch of marketing is sort of the polar opposite of torrefication, seriously aged tonewood!

Good thing its not more than 5000 years old, that might alienate the worshipful music crowd.

[theEdwinson]

I finally got some photos downloaded, and Photobucket seems to be cooperating now. We put together some combinations of woods that Gaultier Redon has collected recently, as we toss around ideas for this next guitar project. He has a supernatural ability to attract some incredible woods- specimens that just don't exist anymore. I mean, c'mon- a set of Snakewood wide enough for a 000-size back- or a three piece with a tapered center to make a D- or SJ-size? How often do you see those floating around?
Or a gorgeous set of quarter-sawn Bois de Rose...? REALLY???
And now this ancient, glacial Sitka from Alaska. My oh my. What to do with these?

Here's a shot of the ancient Sitka, arrayed with the Bois de Rose set, and that stick in the middle is Lignum Vitae, which we were considering for bindings and bevels. Note how the Lignum has notes of cool and warm. I think it would tie the Bois de Rose and the Sitka together harmoniously.



...And here's a shot with the Snakewood in the mix. It's too bad that the photo doesn't show how impressive the Snakewood actually looks. It has some great speckled figure, and deep, rich red-brown color.




Here's the Sitka top by itself. These photos were taken outside, in the shade, so may be a little bluer than actual:



And here's a shot of Gaultier Redon's top (left) and Wood Knot's top:



Anybody care to chime in with impressions of these combinations?

[TomB'sox]

Well, I will go out on the line here and say I bet I am in the minority, but I like it with the snakewood, but I would probably go with a binding with less figure like maybe an ebony or ABW.....I would have to see that to know for sure, but I think that snakewood looks really great with the top, but what's the big deal anyway, just trying to find the best match for wood older than Christ. No probs.

[Joel Teel]

Tom B'sox...
You have a keen eye, Sir. I was blinded by the assumption that the difference in color was due only to my lack of photography skills. I never allowed myself to move beyond this assumption and entertain the possibility that my sets could have continued to oxidize over the past 18+ months, bringing a shift in color. What really embarrasses me, though, is that my my 5th grade math teacher was very clear when telling our class what happens when we "ASSUME"

[Zandit75]

Personally, I like the snakewood. It compliments the Ancient Sitka better I believe.