Advice on a stereo rig for $1000-$1500.

[GuitarinBb]

Greetings!

Years ago I had a recording set-up that worked quite well for me that I sold for family reasons. I am now looking to replicate that rig, but would like some advice on what might serve me best before I make the leap.

What I had:

Neumann TLM193 (a pair, my goto for most everything run through the ART)
Groove Tube 6tm (an awesome mic for vocals in some cases)
AKG 414 B-ULS
Earthworks SR77 Stereo pair
ART Pro MPA Mic Pre

What I typically record: Vocals, a range of acoustic stringed instruments, woodwinds (mostly sax), hand percussion, sounds of the world.

So should I just go with what I had, or do others think there are better choices in the same rough price range? I love real, present sound, which the Neumann's through the ART gave me for what I could afford, and I love to work in stereo when possible/practical.

Thanks,

Peter.

Here's an example of one of my pieces with the type of sound I like best: https://soundcloud.com/wootzy/the-way-she-smiles

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by GuitarinBb

Advice on a stereo rig for $1000-$1500.

What I had:

Neumann TLM193 (a pair, my goto for most everything run through the ART)
Groove Tube 6tm (an awesome mic for vocals in some cases)
AKG 414 B-ULS
ART Pro MPA Mic Pre

So should I just go with what I had, or do others think there are better choices in the same rough price range?

I'm a bit confused by your question because what you had would cost considerably more than $1500 to replace.
A used TLM193 is going to run about $800 at minimum.
Figure $400 for the Groove Tube 6tm
Another $800 for the AKG 414 B-ULS
And about $180 for the ART Pro MPA Mic Pre

That puts your at almost $2200. So is that your budget or is it really $1500?

[sdelsolray]

Yes, you can't replace that list of gear for $1,500. In addition, a home studio requires additional gear - nearfield monitors, headphones, mic stands, cables, a desk, room treatment, a computer, recording software and recording interface. Fortunately, there's good equipment these days that's fairly inexpensive.

[GuitarinBb]

Originally Posted by jim1960

I'm a bit confused by your question because what you had would cost considerably more than $1500 to replace.
A used TLM193 is going to run about $800 at minimum.
Figure $400 for the Groove Tube 6tm
Another $800 for the AKG 414 B-ULS
And about $180 for the ART Pro MPA Mic Pre

That puts your at almost $2200. So is that your budget or is it really $1500?

Too true Jim! I didn't state that very well. I'm thinking of starting with a pair of TLM 193's and the PRO VLA, which I see will likely run my $1500 or just a bit more. I'm curious what others think of this as the best choice for my needs in this price range.

Thanks,

Peter.

[GuitarinBb]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

Yes, you can't replace that list of gear for $1,500. In addition, a home studio requires additional gear - nearfield monitors, headphones, mic stands, cables, a desk, room treatment, a computer, recording software and recording interface. Fortunately, there's good equipment these days that's fairly inexpensive.

Too true, and I do have most of that already, and am looking for advice on what I restated above in my reply to Jim.

Thanks,

Peter.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by GuitarinBb

Too true Jim! I didn't state that very well. I'm thinking of starting with a pair of TLM 193's and the PRO VLA, which I see will likely run my $1500 or just a bit more. I'm curious what others think of this as the best choice for my needs in this price range.

Thanks,

Peter.

If it were me I might rethink the pair if 193's they are currently listing for $775 to $850 for one, on Ebay, so you are looking some $1650 to $1700.
Today for that money you could get an excellent pair of SDC's for guitar and a good LDC for vocal New price or some outstanding good used pieces .

[GuitarinBb]

Originally Posted by KevWind

If it were me I might rethink the pair if 193's they are currently listing for $775 to $850 for one, on Ebay, so you are looking some $1650 to $1700.
Today for that money you could get an excellent pair of SDC's for guitar and a good LDC for vocal New price or some outstanding good used pieces .

Thanks Kev,

Remember that I am recording vocals, a range of acoustic stringed instruments, woodwinds (mostly sax), hand percussion, and sounds of the world. I want to be able to render all of these as live and spacious as I can, and I'm not sure a pair of SDC mics will do that. I play a lot of saxophone and I add it to many of my guitar/vox pieces.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by GuitarinBb

Thanks Kev,

Remember that I am recording vocals, a range of acoustic stringed instruments, woodwinds (mostly sax), hand percussion, and sounds of the world. I want to be able to render all of these as live and spacious as I can, and I'm not sure a pair of SDC mics will do that. I play a lot of saxophone and I add it to many of my guitar/vox pieces.

Of course to each their own, and there are no hard and fast rules .... BUT
Consider some general thoughts on recording.
If are recording and mixing multiple instruments and sounds it may not really be all that desirable to have it all recorded with an LDC single or especially LDC pair.

For example consider that one of the quickest ways to render a recording into flat two dimensional , over crowded, and lacking space and definition is to have every track recorded in stereo. It is the too much of good thing situation.

IMO the multi instrument recordings that I have heard that have the most live spacious and detailed sound are recorded with a combination of mono and stereo tracks

Also consider for example one of the most preferred mics for professional recording of symphonies is a matched pair of Schoeps SDC's .... just some food for thought ...

For me personally I think the combination of SDC and LDC give more flexibility.

And good LDC for vocals is more often than not, also good at recording acoustic instruments as well as location recording for world sounds

Some of the best solo acoustic guitar recordings I have ever heard were pairs of SDC and some were actually a pair of SDC left and right and a single LDC up the middle
So of course do what you think best but you asked for alternatives suggestions for what you did have.. good luck

[GuitarinBb]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Of course to each their own, and there are no hard and fast rules .... BUT
Consider some general thoughts on recording.
If are recording and mixing multiple instruments and sounds it may not really be all that desirable to have it all recorded with an LDC single or especially LDC pair.

For example consider that one of the quickest ways to render a recording into flat two dimensional , over crowded, and lacking space and definition is to have every track recorded in stereo. It is the too much of good thing situation.

IMO the multi instrument recordings that I have heard that have the most live spacious and detailed sound are recorded with a combination of mono and stereo tracks

Also consider for example one of the most preferred mics for professional recording of symphonies is a matched pair of Schoeps SDC's .... just some food for thought ...

For me personally I think the combination of SDC and LDC give more flexibility.

And good LDC for vocals is more often than not, also good at recording acoustic instruments as well as location recording for world sounds

Some of the best solo acoustic guitar recordings I have ever heard were pairs of SDC and some were actually a pair of SDC left and right and a single LDC up the middle
So of course do what you think best but you asked for alternatives suggestions for what you did have.. good luck

Excellent food for thought Kev. I am a novice at this and am trying to come up with the best setup I can for the money and my goals. I will need to investigate these suggestions you have made. I know from my limited experience with the Earthworks SR77 mics I had, which are somewhat unique I think among mics? that there's a whole lot more to this than I know, which is often why I default to live living room sound with as few overdubs as possible, at last at this point. Do you an opinion on the ART PRO MPA?

[jimmorgan]

Check out Peluso microphones, they make a number of well-built microphones modeled after Neumann and Schoeps designs. You can usually find a deal on them used. I don't think they give up much (or anything) to the originals. I have a pair of CEMC-6's that I love for guitar and that are very versatile little mics.

[GuitarinBb]

Originally Posted by jimmorgan

Check out Peluso microphones, they make a number of well-built microphones modeled after Neumann and Schoeps designs. You can usually find a deal on them used. I don't think they give up much (or anything) to the originals. I have a pair of CEMC-6's that I love for guitar and that are very versatile little mics.

Super cool tip! I love this company and their philosophy after watching their video. I'm thinking I need to repost my thread and say: Advice on the best stereo rig for $1500 to record live in the living room!

[midwinter]

I am very, very happy with the Warm Audio mics I have (the WA14 and the WA87). You might look into them.

I was never very happy with the Pro MPA II that I had; I didn't like how it colored the sound. Very happy with my Focusrite ISA Two and my FMR Audio RNPs. The former is great paired with certain mics and the latter is great for clean, mostly-uncolored sounds.

Happy to share you some video/audio of the WA14 being used in the living room. Or of anything I mentioned that might be featured on some recording.

[rockabilly69]

I would ask why you are going to buy an ART Pro VLA??? I thought you were looking to buy a stereo preamp not a compressor? If you meant a Pro MPA II, I can say the newer models are even better sounding than the originals as they run the tubes at higher voltage. Some cork sniffers will cringe at the idea of using a cheap Pro MPA with such good microphones but a few years ago Sound on Sound did a blind test of microphones and the Pro MPA II was consistently picked as one of the best sounders with pres costing much more!

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/pick-preamp

If I were just looking to do some good home based recordings I would look a the Neumann TLM102 as a cost effective microphone. They are getting fabulous reviews. Check out these Neumann videos to get an idea (watch all the videos)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aivxxQLK9Qw

Another good microphone choice for a GREAT all-rounder is is the Violet Amethyst which is now available at a great price... https://violetmicsus.myshopify.com/p...f-the-amethyst

The downside is that they typically make them to order, and have a few week wait. But, they are great microphones!

I own MANY high end microphones and the Amethyst Vintage hangs with them all!

Another mic getting some great praise in your budget range is the 3U Audio GZ67FET LDC or the Warbler 127C SDC. These mics are built to at the same or higher level of quality as the more expensive Pelusos! Do a google search on 3U mics and you'll be surprised at what people are saying about these mics.

For me I personally like LDC mics over SDCs especially on aggressive strummed rhythms which to me is harder to record than a finger-picked piece.

But when I want detail in delicate acoustic guitar recording I also like combining an multipattern LDC in Fig 8 with a LDC or SDC cardoid mic in a M/S recording setup.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by GuitarinBb

Excellent food for thought Kev. I am a novice at this and am trying to come up with the best setup I can for the money and my goals. I will need to investigate these suggestions you have made. I know from my limited experience with the Earthworks SR77 mics I had, which are somewhat unique I think among mics? that there's a whole lot more to this than I know, which is often why I default to live living room sound with as few overdubs as possible, at last at this point. Do you an opinion on the ART PRO MPA?

Sorry I don't have any experience with ART gear, so no opinion
But in general terms the next question would be what interface do you currently have and does it have any pre's ? Because currently many of the entry level and second or third tier up from entry, have pretty good mic pre's already onboard ...

[ChuckS]

I'm wondering if you'd get more useful recommendations if you gave us a better sense of your gear acquisition plan. Such as:

Are you trying to build up gear that is fairly 'balanced' in their level of performance, or are you more concerned about the performance of 1 or 2 components (i.e. vocal mic more important to you than preamp, etc). Are you planning on building up gradually with components you plan on keeping, or are you trying to cover all your needs now, and upgrade in the future if necessary? Is your budget for your initial needs or for the entirety of what you want to acquire?

Depending on how many mics you need at a time, and the mic sound you are after, mics with interchangeable capsules might be appropriate. For example, 3 Zigma CHI head amps can be combined with any of 4 LDC capsules or any of 4 SDC capsules. Their head amps come either with or without transformer output.

If you are primarily focused on one or more LDC mics, but want a low cost SDC (or two) for occasionally use, you could look at the Line Audio CM3 (subcardioid sdc with a very flat frequency response and good off axis response). I just picked up a few. It's sounding very good for my son's initial use on violin (he hasn't used it yet on acoustic guitar or sax). I'm also intending to try them on bell choir, small vocal choir, and grouping of 2-3 vocalists at church for live reinforcement but haven't done that yet.