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Old 02-22-2020, 11:10 PM
Rick Shepherd Rick Shepherd is offline
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Default Apollo Twin X - Insert Outboard Effects

I am now using the Apollo Twin X as my interface between my MacBook Pro and outboard Preamps and Converters. Initially I was feeling very uneasy, unsure whether or not I'd be able to insert my Lexicon PCM92 outboard effects into my recordings. I don't consider myself very good at all the configuration needed to pull this off on my own, and it can be quite frustrating and intimidating. However, I did a search on Universal Audio's website and found instructions on how to set it up. To my surprise, it worked! And, with what little experience I do have, I was able to figure out how to set all the proper levels for the inputs and outputs, etc., and it is quite nice to take a raw set of tracks and print a stereo track with the added effects, then bounce it out as a .wav and .mp3.

Here is an example of what it sounds like with default Medium Hall Reverb with 30% wet effects applied:

Recording with Effects

I just prefer my Lexicon PCM92 effects. The software effects in Logic just don't seem to have quite the same richness and depth.

As frustrating as it can often be at first, the end result can be very satisfying!

Also, the Apollo Twin X is very nice as a stand-alone interface without the outboard gear. I was surprised how easy it was to get used to navigating the controls. It is a small device, but heavy and built like a tank.
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Last edited by Rick Shepherd; 02-23-2020 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 02-23-2020, 08:08 AM
runamuck runamuck is online now
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Really nice, Rick, both the recording and the playing.
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Old 02-23-2020, 08:21 AM
ken.han ken.han is offline
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That guitar sounds amazing. Are you using a mic? Or a pickup? What's your setup?

Fantastic playing, too!
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Old 02-23-2020, 08:38 AM
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Hey that sounds great . And I agree even though I use plugins (mostly EQ) I prefer my my hardware Comp and Reverb.

Understanding that with only solo acoustic guitar it is probably (6's) but have you ever tried setting up your LEX reverb "in parallel" on an Aux track and then sending to it from the guitar track?

Also since I have no experience with UAD or Logic I am curious .

You state you went UA's web sight to get the info to set it up ? Assuming that with UA you deal with a two tiered GUI. system One for UA and one for Logic ?

So does that mean you had to configure the set up in the UA GUI or just in Logic GUI, or both ?
Or put another way why could not you just configure the external hardware routing for the Lex. in the Logic I/O routing matrix? Or does the fact that your interface is UA mean that you have configure it in UA also ?

And does the LEX show as an I/O insert or a plugin insert in Logic ?

The reason is (again only knowing PT) the only config. I had to do for both my HW units in the PT I/O matrix and they show as an I/O selection in the "Inserts section of my PT tracks.
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Old 02-23-2020, 09:42 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
You state you went UA's web sight to get the info to set it up ? Assuming that with UA you deal with a two tiered GUI. system One for UA and one for Logic ?
Just gonna jump in...

The two-tiered GUI, if I'm interpreting your question correctly, is becoming more common. My UA Apollo comes with a GUI called "Console." How much you have to interact with it depends on your setup. My setup minimizes the need to even open Console because I'm not using any of the mic pres on the Apollo. I have 8 channels of quality outboard pres so I'm using all the inputs as line-ins. If someone is using the UAD unison plugins, I think they have to use those in Console and that's what will track in their DAW.

When I decided to upgrade from my Apollo Silverface, I was considering the Apogee Symphony I/O Mk II 2x6 SE. On paper, I really did prefer it to the X series Apollo I eventually bought, but the thing that pushed me off the idea was the Symphony software. The UAD Console was the devil I knew; the Symphony software went on for pages and looked a bit intimidating.
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Old 02-23-2020, 10:27 AM
Rick Shepherd Rick Shepherd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken.han View Post
That guitar sounds amazing. Are you using a mic? Or a pickup? What's your setup?

Fantastic playing, too!
Hi Ken,

The guitar is a 2003 Taylor 914C. I used a matched pair of Gefell M-300's --->Avalon AD2022 Preamp ---> UA 2192 Converter ---> Apollo Twin X ---> MacBook Pro w/Logic Pro X
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Old 02-23-2020, 10:37 AM
Rick Shepherd Rick Shepherd is offline
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Hey that sounds great . And I agree even though I use plugins (mostly EQ) I prefer my my hardware Comp and Reverb.

Understanding that with only solo acoustic guitar it is probably (6's) but have you ever tried setting up your LEX reverb "in parallel" on an Aux track and then sending to it from the guitar track?

Also since I have no experience with UAD or Logic I am curious .

You state you went UA's web sight to get the info to set it up ? Assuming that with UA you deal with a two tiered GUI. system One for UA and one for Logic ?

So does that mean you had to configure the set up in the UA GUI or just in Logic GUI, or both ?
Or put another way why could not you just configure the external hardware routing for the Lex. in the Logic I/O routing matrix? Or does the fact that your interface is UA mean that you have configure it in UA also ?

And does the LEX show as an I/O insert or a plugin insert in Logic ?

The reason is (again only knowing PT) the only config. I had to do for both my HW units in the PT I/O matrix and they show as an I/O selection in the "Inserts section of my PT tracks.
Hi KevWind,

Yes, it is a combination of patching using the UA "Console" software along with some patching in Logic. Once I did that, it was pretty easy, but I honestly still don't understand the setup, I just followed these directions:

Using Hardware Inserts with Apollo Twin

Yes, the PCM92 shows as an I/O insert.
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Old 02-23-2020, 03:52 PM
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Interesting. No wonder it took a while to figure out, good job . I guess I am spoiled a bit with PT, because you don't have set up anything, other than list/name of the HW units in the "Insert" tab in the I/O, so it shows as an I/O selection when you click a tracks insert button. It could be that because I also use an Avid interface but I actually use the same I/O channel numbers for the Inputs Tab and the Outputs Tab. Which is nice for keeping multiple HW inserts respective physical channels organized. In my set up 3-4 is the Compressor and 5-6 is the Reverb



Studio One, is a bit cumbersome, in that you have to set up a specific Studio One plug in, order to send to, and return from, external Hardware (so it does not show as I/O selection when you click inserts like in PT) You have to select the plug in then select the specific HW unit , not a big deal but not as elegant and simple as PT
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Old 02-23-2020, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Interesting. No wonder it took a while to figure out, good job . I guess I am spoiled a bit with PT, because you don't have set up anything, other than list/name of the HW units in the "Insert" tab in the I/O, so it shows as an I/O selection when you click a tracks insert button. It could be that because I also use an Avid interface but I actually use the same I/O channel numbers for the Inputs Tab and the Outputs Tab. Which is nice for keeping multiple HW inserts respective physical channels organized. In my set up 3-4 is the Compressor and 5-6 is the Reverb

This isn't a Logic thing, at least to the extent I understand what's being done here (I don't have an Apollo Twin). I use the Apogee Ensemble for my interface, and my outboard reverb is just attached to an output channel and corresponding inputs. So in Logic, I just route my reverb send to channel 13 (what I used for the reverb). I always use "parallel" for reverbs, so I can send different amounts per channel, plus it just feels right to keep extra stuff out of the direct path.
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Old 02-23-2020, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
This isn't a Logic thing, at least to the extent I understand what's being done here (I don't have an Apollo Twin). I use the Apogee Ensemble for my interface, and my outboard reverb is just attached to an output channel and corresponding inputs. So in Logic, I just route my reverb send to channel 13 (what I used for the reverb). I always use "parallel" for reverbs, so I can send different amounts per channel, plus it just feels right to keep extra stuff out of the direct path.
Ya I thought it might be the Apollo needing a second GUI setup .

So in Logic when you click on a channels inserts button, in the drop down window, you can select either a plugin or a direct I/O ? Just out of curiosity are you using the M7 set for for analog I/O or digital ? I run my M7 via AES
Yes I do Verb in parallel and almost never use Verb on the track itself.


This is what it looks like in PT when I click on a channels insert button I can select any of the categories, if I select the i/o category, I can then select either my M7 verb , or my 3U comp (the grey highlighted bands) are showing how I select the M7 verb (is this basically like Logic also?)


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Old 02-23-2020, 06:14 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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This is what it looks like in PT when I click on a channels insert button I can select any of the categories, if I select the i/o category, I can then select either my M7 verb , or my 3U comp (the grey highlighted bands) are showing how I select the M7 verb (is this basically like Logic also?)


You're spoiled.
And I'm a little jealous.
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Old 02-24-2020, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
So in Logic when you click on a channels inserts button, in the drop down window, you can select either a plugin or a direct I/O ?
Not quite, tho I could be missing something, Logic has lots of features. Logic has an IO plugin that lets you route out to a hardware output, and bring back the input. I could put the IO plugin on a channel as an effect, but that would basically insert the external device on that track,

Logic has effects (for plugins) and busses. The way I do it is to send a signal to a bus, and then put the IO plugin on that bus.

Looks like this, (track+bus+IO plugin)

Logic_Bus copy.jpg
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Old 02-24-2020, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Not quite, tho I could be missing something, Logic has lots of features. Logic has an IO plugin that lets you route out to a hardware output, and bring back the input. I could put the IO plugin on a channel as an effect, but that would basically insert the external device on that track,

Logic has effects (for plugins) and busses. The way I do it is to send a signal to a bus, and then put the IO plugin on that bus.

Looks like this, (track+bus+IO plugin)

Attachment 33706
Humm sometimes communication is a bit tricky on the internets

But this is informative as to how specific DAWs work. So if I understand correctly ?

So it looks like in Logic (like Studio One) you have to use a plugin to route to external hardware FX , to be able to use it as an insert. The bold sentence is the same, you can either insert the hardware fx directly on a track/channel , or create a parallel FX (Aux) in PT or (Bus) in Logic I am assuming and send to that, from multiple other tracks .

The difference appears to be that in PT it is handled automatically in the I/O matrix, (no need of a plug in) and automatically shows in the inserts drop down window, when you physically connect the external hardware to the interface's physical I/O connections. All I do is label respective tracks, busses, and sends, for clarity.

Overall the method we use for a "parallel FX" is basically the same. In PT, I choose/create an "Aux Input" (I assume basically what you are calling a BUS track) in the track selection, and then assign an internal bus to send from the individual audio tracks, to that Aux Input track.

So again referring to my snap shot . In this case the dark purple track is my Aux Input track (parallel FX track named M7) with the Bricasti (also labeled as the M7 in I/O selection) being selected as the insert.

Then I select a pair of Bus numbers, which I have also renamed (M7) to be the same as the Aux Track name (for easy organization and recognition), Then select the M7 Bus as the input for that Aux track and then choose (Bus M7) from the sends sections on any individual tracks I want reverb FX on,,, make sense ?

For example (in my snapshot) , on the magenta colored vocal tracks , I select the M7 Bus in the sends section and set the individual sends level, for the amount of reverb FX I want for those specific tracks .

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Last edited by KevWind; 02-24-2020 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 02-24-2020, 08:54 AM
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opps double post
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Old 02-24-2020, 09:03 AM
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Thought I would also post these screen shots of the I/O "Set Up" windows in PT.

BTW---Rick--- if you would rather I start a new thread I can certainly do that no problem, Kev

Any way mean time since a picture is worth a thousand words

here are the , "Input" --"Output"-- "Bus" -and "Insert" tabs in the PT I/O window
So I have everything consistently labeled in all the tabs.


So in PT (at least with an Avid interface which all I ever used ). the channel matrix automatically shows what format the channels are i.e. Analog, AES, ADAT ,


Input Tab as you can see my outboard pre amp is on analog 1-2 inputs ( the Chan A and Chan B are how the 2 channel preamp is labeled on its front plate ) The compressor is on analog channels 3-4 (labeled 3U) and the reverb is AES 1-2 Digital I/O (physical I/O on interface 5-6 ) and labeled (M7)



Output Tab



Bus Tab



By simply labeling these they show in all the tracks "Inserts" section as an I/O selection

Inserts Tab
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