12 fret with cutaway and fat neck

[SingingSparrow]

I am looking for a 12 fret guitar with a big neck (for reference: my current guitar is a waterloo wl-12 that I love and I have no issue with the neck, but I would not mind something a tad fatter). I love the wl-12 and am keeping it, but would like another one where I can go to the 15th fret and beyond more easily.

Short scale would be ideal. (I experience pain in my arms with a long reach and also with too big a body - 00 would be great)

I play finger style, if that matters.

Any recommendations? Budget 2500 and below.

Cheers.

[D41Fan]

Maybe check out the Tommy Emmanuel model by Larrivee... I included the link.
https://www.larrivee.com/products/c-03r-te

[davidbeinct]

Originally Posted by D41Fan

Maybe check out the Tommy Emmanuel model by Larrivee... I included the link.
https://www.larrivee.com/products/c-03r-te

That neck is not fat. I played one a couple weeks ago.

[SingingSparrow]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll see if I can put my hands on one.

A cutaway acoustic is such a weird beast. And it seems the one I want is almost a unicorn.

I wonder if there are finger pickers who stick with 12 frets and manage to play above the 14th fret with ease. Perhaps I just need more practice.

I have an electric guitar that I never play because the acoustic sound is so much sweeter to me, but I will say it is very liberating to be able to play into the 18th and 19th frets. It is the only reason I ever pick it up, the few times I do.

[SingingSparrow]

Originally Posted by davidbeinct

That neck is not fat. I played one a couple weeks ago.

Ah. Alas. Thanks!

[gr81dorn]

i think you're going to find that no one really makes fat necks anymore and the big waterloo V neck is probably the thickest neck on the market right now other than custom order stuff.

[Tony Burns]

Fat necks are great when you have big hands -
My Colby Horton 12 fret Dreads neck is fat
and it is a fun play .
Maybe you should check with smaller builders
and see what they can do for you - im a beiiver
that that may be the best solution !




.

[M Hayden]

Recording King makes some mallet guitars - like the RP-16C 12-fret 0 with cutaway - that have great big necks. I had one for a while and the neck was big but surprisingly comfortable.

[zombywoof]

I remember a time when the only 12 fret cutaway even being offered was a Harmony Stella.

I have always liked the necks on Waterloos. The one time I saw a caliper taken to one the depth at the 1st fret measured 1.002". That is thinner than the necks on some of my 1930s and early-1940s guitars. Even my '42 Gibson which has a truss rod clocks in at 1.06" at the first. But in terms of modern production guitars while it is no trouble to find wide necks it is not going to be near as easy to find one with a 1.0" or greater neck depth.

That said, depth of the neck, like width, is only part of the "neck feel" equation. So specs will only get you so far.

[SingingSparrow]

Mark from Collings emailed me specs about the large V and the wl-12 necks a while ago. They are as follows (in inches):

wl-12/k/14 small neck:

depth at 1st fret: 0.898
width at 1st fret: 0.799
d at 9th: 1.136
w at 9th: 2.105

V on the 14s:

depth at 1st fret: 0.982
width at 1st fret: 0.799
d at 9th: 1.093
w at 9th: 2.105

Wl-s:
depth at 1st: .83
depth at 9th: 1.0

I actually am skeptical of those numbers. According to the above, the low profile necks are actually deeper on the 9th fret than the large V. Also, the Wl-S reads smaller than my wl-12, whereas by feel in a store, I thought the WL-S was a tad fatter (and the soft V was amazing).

So you are probably right in that the depth of a neck is probably only a contributing factor to how a neck feels, and specs will only get us so far.

It is hard to go try guitars currently with lockdowns in place.

I love the old harmony necks. The first time I tried one, it was a bit weird that the neck doesn't taper, but I think one would get used to that.

I don't know if I have big hands or not, but as one who does a lot of manual labor, and exercise as well, and one with preexisting shoulder issues, I find that a fatter neck allows me to play longer and with less pain. This is also the reason why I limit myself to smaller bodies, and why I feel most comfortable with the 12 fret instrument with a short scale.

I am beginning to think though that the 12 fret short scale cutaway with a fat neck is a unicorn. I am wondering if I should turn my attention instead to a suitable 14 fret instrument. Ah, as much as I love guitars, and love trying new ones, I have to say shopping, in general, is not a pleasant experience. We have too much information these days about things, to the point of it being agonizing..

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by SingingSparrow

Mark from Collings emailed me specs about the large V and the wl-12 necks a while ago. They are as follows (in inches):

wl-12/k/14 small neck:

depth at 1st fret: 0.898
width at 1st fret: 0.799
d at 9th: 1.136
w at 9th: 2.105

V on the 14s:

depth at 1st fret: 0.982
width at 1st fret: 0.799
d at 9th: 1.093
w at 9th: 2.105

Wl-s:
depth at 1st: .83
depth at 9th: 1.0

I actually am skeptical of those numbers. According to the above, the low profile necks are actually deeper on the 9th fret than the large V. Also, the Wl-S reads smaller than my wl-12, whereas by feel in a store, I thought the WL-S was a tad fatter (and the soft V was amazing).

So you are probably right in that the depth of a neck is probably only a contributing factor to how a neck feels, and specs will only get us so far.

It is hard to go try guitars currently with lockdowns in place.

I love the old harmony necks. The first time I tried one, it was a bit weird that the neck doesn't taper, but I think one would get used to that.

It is my understanding that in spring 2017 Collings began slimming down necks. Perhaps Waterloos followed the example of their higher priced kin.

Harmony 14 fret mid-and upper-level guitars, at least from the later 1950s on, did have a taper to the neck. Sovereigns, Jamborees, H162s and such generally measured .91 at the 1st fret going to between 1.05" and 1.15" at the 12th. Probably depended on whether it had neck re-enforcement or not.

[NoodleFingers]

If you're willing to consider carbon fiber, RainSong makes a number of 12-fret guitars in different body sizes (OM/GC, WS/GA, parlor) with a 24.9" scale and a pretty chunky, C-shaped neck. I have the OM, and I love mine.

All those are $2499 and include an LR Baggs StagePro Element. You can order any of them without the pickup to save (I think) about $150.

[jimi junior]

Presumably the fat neck and cutaway are non-negotiable, since those a strong player preferences. But restricting yourself to 12 fret seems odd? It changes the tone but so do a million other variables. Would you consider exploring 14 fret options? I'm sure you'd find something you love among the much more plentiful options?

Sorry I know that's not what you asked, just a thought.

Best

[pmichael]

Originally Posted by SingingSparrow

I am looking for a 12 fret guitar with a big neck (for reference: my current guitar is a waterloo wl-12 that I love and I have no issue with the neck, but I would not mind something a tad fatter). I love the wl-12 and am keeping it, but would like another one where I can go to the 15th fret and beyond more easily.

Short scale would be ideal. (I experience pain in my arms with a long reach and also with too big a body - 00 would be great)

I play finger style, if that matters.

Any recommendations? Budget 2500 and below.

Cheers.

Check out Eric Skye who plays 12 fret 00 and is often in the high frets ... no cutaway.

[SingingSparrow]

Originally Posted by NoodleFingers

If you're willing to consider carbon fiber, RainSong makes a number ..

I have played a rainsong parlor before. It was actually quite good. I was surprised. Now that you mention it, it certainly is a very real option (even if the idea is, admittedly, weird to me).

Are carbon fiber guitars hardy enough to take to the beach (sand/humidity)? I have taken my waterloo a couple of times, but have stopped since a friend advised not to. I also wonder if cf gits can be left out in the sun for longer than a wooden guitar without incurring damage.

Originally Posted by jimi junior

Presumably the fat neck and cutaway are non-negotiable, since those a strong player preferences. But restricting yourself to 12 fret seems odd? It changes the tone but so do a million other variables. Would you consider exploring 14 fret options?

Well, while I preferred the sound of the wl-12 over the 14 when I was purchasing last year, my affection for the 12 fret instrument is a lot about ergonomics and comfort.

I want to be open to a 14 fret guitar. Opens my choices up immensely. I am just skeptical whether the longer reach will be comfortable in the long run. In the store, I do tend to find the 12 fretters more comfortable.

I have played an M20 a couple of times. They sounded very good, and the neck is rather like the wl-12. Very lightly built though, I saw one in a store with the top split in two.