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  #16  
Old 01-13-2022, 12:28 PM
llew llew is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Patrick View Post
…is this true of all Santa Cruz D-12’s.…the D-12 page on the SC website says nothing about the shallow depth you speak of….I played one once years ago and don’t recall it being shallower but I honestly dont know….I would find that to be a very attractive feature..
The one I had was approximately the same depth as a Martin OM at the tail block. Are they all that way? I think they were when I had mine which was a while ago. They might build them with a deeper body depth now? Best way to find out is to contact Santa Cruz. They do build 14 and 12 fret variety slope shoulder dreads (Southern Jumbo/Vintage Southerner/Roy Smeck) models that are a more standard depth. But I believe the D-12 is a more shallow (or was?) body guitar.

Dream Guitars had one and still shows the specs. They measured this: Depth at the neck block: 3.375"/depth at the tail block: 4.375". So a little more than OM depth at the tail block (by Dream Guitars measurements) but less than what I'd consider a more standard dread depth of 4.75" to 5.0". Hope that helps...

https://www.dreamguitars.com/shop/sa...ort-scale.html
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Last edited by llew; 01-13-2022 at 01:01 PM.
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  #17  
Old 01-13-2022, 05:57 PM
Tnfiddler Tnfiddler is offline
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My Bourgeois Slope D Banjo Killer that I used to own.



My current Bourgeois AT Vintage D Banjo Killer. Easy to see the difference in the body styles.
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  #18  
Old 01-13-2022, 06:12 PM
zmf zmf is offline
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Originally Posted by Tnfiddler View Post
My Bourgeois Slope D Banjo Killer that I used to own.



My current Bourgeois AT Vintage D Banjo Killer. Easy to see the difference in the body styles.
So which one kills banjos better?
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  #19  
Old 01-13-2022, 06:23 PM
Tnfiddler Tnfiddler is offline
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Originally Posted by zmf View Post
So which one kills banjos better?

The AT Vintage D, by a LONG SHOT! There’s no comparison between the two.
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  #20  
Old 01-13-2022, 06:37 PM
DBW DBW is offline
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J-45 vs Hummingbird will help you see the difference.
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  #21  
Old 01-13-2022, 07:31 PM
sinistral sinistral is offline
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My understanding is that the original dreadnoughts had rounded—or sloped—shoulders and 12-fret bodies until 1934, when Martin squared them off and went to 14-fret bodies. Today, the shape that people visualize when one says “dreadnought” is the classic, square-shouldered Martin shape. I feel sorry for Gibson when people refer to Gibson’s larger models as slope-shouldered dreadnoughts, and I’m sure Gibson isn’t a fan of the practice, either. It would be like people calling a Lincoln Continental Ford’s variation of a Cadillac. I bet Gibson wished everyone referred to dreadnoughts as Euro-shouldered, fat-waisted Jumbos.
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  #22  
Old 01-14-2022, 12:50 PM
Draft Guitar Draft Guitar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llew View Post
SCGC's D-12 is a bit of a different animal. A 12 fret slope shoulder dread (all 12 fret dreads are that I've seen?) that has the body depth of a 000/OM. I believe the OP is referring to 14 fret dreads with a more standard body depth.
That being said...the D-12 is a great guitar. One I should have held onto...
I think I found the answer about the body depth. The Smeck models have a slightly thinner body. I believe that the D 12 has a standard dreadnought body depth.
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  #23  
Old 01-14-2022, 01:03 PM
koko61 koko61 is offline
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My Olav Loef Sloped shoulder 12 fret. I play better with my fingers in my SS than in the OM

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  #24  
Old 01-14-2022, 02:06 PM
Draft Guitar Draft Guitar is offline
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Originally Posted by koko61 View Post
My Olav Loef Sloped shoulder 12 fret. I play better with my fingers in my SS than in the OM

That's a beauty.

I just can't get my mind off of 12 fret SS dreads. Gas is forming.
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  #25  
Old 01-14-2022, 03:02 PM
nuchdig nuchdig is offline
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As the oldest son on a family farm I am surprised at the answers here. Guitars? I can tell you that in the Spring I am a solid 6' 2". By the end of Summer I am 6'. Come end of Fall, 5' 11" and 5' 10" by end of Winter. Now THAT'S slope shoulder
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  #26  
Old 01-14-2022, 03:14 PM
Draft Guitar Draft Guitar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuchdig View Post
As the oldest son on a family farm I am surprised at the answers here. Guitars? I can tell you that in the Spring I am a solid 6' 2". By the end of Summer I am 6'. Come end of Fall, 5' 11" and 5' 10" by end of Winter. Now THAT'S slope shoulder
As Dave Mustane once wrote - "people have round shoulders from carrying heavy loads."
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  #27  
Old 01-14-2022, 04:24 PM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llew View Post
A Gibson J-45 is a "slope shoulder" dread and a D-28 is a square shoulder dread. Lower bout is a bit wider on the slope shoulder typically and the upper bout is a bit rounded. The RDS 11 is a square shoulder dread...
llew, why call a Gibson design, known as a Jumbo. a dreadnought?

Martin made a large body design for Ditson until 1929 when the company failed. In 1931, Martin added it, in a modest way, into their product line in 1931 - they called it the "dreadnought".

It was a 12 fret slotted headstock guitar, simply larger than the 000 which had been their largest model since 1902.

Gibson, possibly, copied or took influence from the shape of the dreadnought, for their "Jumbo" which came out in '34 but they made it with 14 frets over a short, Gibson scale.

The same year, ('34) Martin did the same trick on the dreadnought that they'd done to their 000 when they squished down the body and fitted a 14 fret skinny neck and called it the "OM". (which they discontinued in '33, replacing it with a similarly squished down Dreadnought (also initially called an OM) by reducing the body length and making the neck thinner.

So, Martin made a model called a Dreadnought, and Gibson made a model called a Jumbo.

Surely referring to a Gibson jumbo as a dreadnought is a bit like referring to a
General Motors sports car as a "Mustang"?
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Last edited by Silly Moustache; 01-15-2022 at 04:01 AM.
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  #28  
Old 01-14-2022, 07:08 PM
llew llew is offline
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Thanks Andy...I'm aware of the nomenclature but I was trying to not muddy the water as the OP referee to a "slope shoulder dread".
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  #29  
Old 01-14-2022, 08:19 PM
Tnfiddler Tnfiddler is offline
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Dana calls his model a Slope shoulder dreadnought, so I’ll go with his nomenclature.

https://bourgeoisguitars.com/product/slope-d/
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  #30  
Old 01-15-2022, 04:10 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llew View Post
Thanks Andy...I'm aware of the nomenclature but I was trying to not muddy the water as the OP referee to a "slope shoulder dread".
Hi llew, and I am trying to clarify this frequently muddied water.

If this term mush be used - it could only, logically be to describe the Original Martin dreadnought design, and the Gibson Jumbo is no more a dreadnought, than a Honda CRV is a Toyota.

Yes, I know that "slope dread" is often misused by builders themselves, and that many confuse the Jumbo with the super jumbo, and there are those that think that any guitar smaller than a dread or Jumbo is a parlour.

I even made a video about this ..wow - four years ago.



I guess everyone thinks I'm crazy, especially those who simply don't understand the rather important evolution of the steel string acoustic guitar.
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I'm here to help and advise only

By request, I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom! See: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=589058

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