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  #16  
Old 10-06-2019, 10:47 AM
EvanB EvanB is offline
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It would also be nice to have a time-line. Such a line might begin with the Maccaferri instruments.
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  #17  
Old 10-06-2019, 10:56 AM
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It would also be nice to have a time-line. Such a line might begin with the Maccaferri instruments.
Aah, the Plastic Mac

I had one of those for quite a while, and foolishly gave it away when I moved cross-country some 33 years ago. I was custodian of another (belonging to a friend) more recently, but sadly, its neck had taken a turn for the worse and it was pretty much unplayable above the 4th or 5th fret. Sweet little guitar, and way ahead of its time in design and construction.
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  #18  
Old 10-06-2019, 10:59 AM
ac ac is offline
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Definitely qualify as ‘composite’ - they don’t use much CF.

Is there an agreed-upon definition of what would qualify as a ‘composite’ guitar?
We have CF, flax cloth, nylon filled plastic, wood encased in CF, CF and fiberglass (Journey, Rainsong, others), Kevlar, etc., including some CF with metal, some CF with wood parts (Brunner, Klos, others)

My first priority is to filter out those that would generally be considered by "most" of us to fall somewhere into the composite world in some way. For example, I would not include a wood guitar that has CF stiffener rods in the neck.

After names are gathered, the list can be discussed, divided, purified, etc., and surely will a be subjective call for many of these. But each person can modify their own list from the raw list as they wish for their own purposes. First, we need the names.

I used to mentally prefer pure CF only, but have finally adjusted to materials that won't suck up water from the air and deform over time. And hopefully, stronger and more durable than wood. Pretty general.

So first a broad list, then sorting and narrowing a bit--such as those companies that are still producing. Things change, look at Blackbird. Composite, but no CF. That's pretty major.

I am more than surprised at the size of the lists already. I had no idea.
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  #19  
Old 10-06-2019, 11:22 AM
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My first priority is to filter out those that would generally be considered by "most" of us to fall somewhere into the composite world in some way. For example, I would not include a wood guitar that has CF stiffener rods in the neck.
Makes sense to me.
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I am more than surprised at the size of the lists already. I had no idea.
Me too - way more than I expected to see.

Another one for the electric timeline would be the Bond Electraglide, from the mid-80s.
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Old 10-07-2019, 06:23 AM
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Makes sense to me.

Me too - way more than I expected to see.

Another one for the electric timeline would be the Bond Electraglide, from the mid-80s.
Thanks. That is very, very early. Is it earlier than Rainsong?

I wonder who made the first CF guitars -- electric and acoustic??
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  #21  
Old 10-07-2019, 07:28 AM
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Is there an agreed-upon definition of what would qualify as a ‘composite’ guitar?
There are very few agreed upon definitions but a composite is a structure or entity made up of distinct components in which two or more structurally complementary materials, usually a matrix material and a reinforcing material, are combined to produce structural or functional properties not present in any individual component. Wood, bone, concrete, plastic reinforced by glass fibers, and graphite reinforced with carbon fibers are all composite materials. All wood guitars are composites of wood, steel, bone or plastic, adhesives, etc.. In reality almost everything in the universe is a composite, including the human body, planet earth, wood, houses, vehicles, and stars.

So the definition of a composite guitar is:
Every guitar that has ever been made.
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  #22  
Old 10-07-2019, 10:13 AM
merlin666 merlin666 is offline
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Thanks. That is very, very early. Is it earlier than Rainsong?

I wonder who made the first CF guitars -- electric and acoustic??
As far as I know it was Charlie Kaman with Ovation who built the first carbon-fibre topped guitars in the early 70s. Their first production model, the 1687, is still being built by a small dedicated custom shop. Though it still has a wooden neck and fretboard, and fibreglass body.
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Old 10-07-2019, 10:20 AM
Joel_man Joel_man is offline
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As far as I know it was Charlie Kaman with Ovation who built the first carbon-fibre topped guitars in the early 70s. Their first production model, the 1687, is still being built by a small dedicated custom shop. Though it still has a wooden neck and fretboard, and fibreglass body.
It was my Adamas W597 that introduced me to carbon fiber, it was louder and had more resonance than my woods.
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  #24  
Old 10-07-2019, 10:43 AM
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Thanks. That is very, very early. Is it earlier than Rainsong?
According to Wikipedia, Rainsong was founded in 1982. Bond was in business a bit later, for just two years, 1984-1985.

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I wonder who made the first CF guitars -- electric and acoustic??
Bond was the first electric I was ever aware of. Ovation's Adamas was the first acoustic I'd heard of to use the material - in 1977, again according to Wikipedia.
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  #25  
Old 10-07-2019, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Song View Post
There are very few agreed upon definitions but a composite is a structure or entity made up of distinct components in which two or more structurally complementary materials, usually a matrix material and a reinforcing material, are combined to produce structural or functional properties not present in any individual component. Wood, bone, concrete, plastic reinforced by glass fibers, and graphite reinforced with carbon fibers are all composite materials. All wood guitars are composites of wood, steel, bone or plastic, adhesives, etc.. In reality almost everything in the universe is a composite, including the human body, planet earth, wood, houses, vehicles, and stars.

So the definition of a composite guitar is:
Every guitar that has ever been made.
When a definition is so broad as to have "all" meanings, in effect, it has no meaning. It becomes a definition without distinction.

In post #18, I did give "my" definition of composite for the purpose of these lists:

". . . . materials that won't suck up water from the air and deform over time. And hopefully, stronger and more durable than wood. Pretty general."

So my definition of composites is, in part, simply excluding wood, particularly wood in the body that is easiest to relatively quickly deform with humidity changes.

And I mentioned earlier that the list can be used by anyone and modified for their on needs and meanings, etc. It's a work in progress.

You may find the list too exclusive for your needs and wish to add wood guitars as well. That's no problem. Others may wish to exclude builders on their list for their own reason and end with a shorter list. That's no problem either.

I hope the list has interest for most and is maybe even useful for at least few people. It was just a passing thought that came to my mind that I realized there were now more companies than I could bring to mind. And so the list. I've learned of many builders that I'd never heard of already--so it's an enjoyable thread for me.
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  #26  
Old 10-07-2019, 03:46 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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Does this count? If so, it's the original

https://reverb.com/item/2145152-macc...1953-white-red
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  #27  
Old 10-07-2019, 04:09 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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It would also be nice to have a time-line. Such a line might begin with the Maccaferri instruments.
I now regret (to a degree) not buying one of the Maccaferri plastic guitars when Elderly came across a bunch and cleared them out maybe 20 years ago. They were around $135 IIRC. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.....
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  #28  
Old 10-07-2019, 04:18 PM
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Does this count? If so, it's the original

https://reverb.com/item/2145152-macc...1953-white-red
That's the one I had. I paid nowhere near that price for it, though...

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Originally Posted by Earl49 View Post
I now regret (to a degree) not buying one of the Maccaferri plastic guitars when Elderly came across a bunch and cleared them out maybe 20 years ago. They were around $135 IIRC. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.....
I seem to remember paying under $100 for mine - pretty sure it was from Elderly. It would have been at least 33 years ago - I had it before I moved from Massachusetts to California in 1986. It really was a sweet little guitar...
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  #29  
Old 10-08-2019, 12:50 AM
Sonics Sonics is offline
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It would also be nice to have a time-line. Such a line might begin with the Maccaferri instruments.
You can read about Geoff Gould, a disgruntled aerospace engineer and bassist, who took a material used in the construction of satellites and applied it to instruments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulus_Guitars

Geoff's vision only went as far as making and supplying CF necks to various guitar companies from 1977 onwards. However at some later point he decided to get into the guitar building business himself.




The Ovation Adamas has already been mentioned. 1977 seems to be the year too.

Ned Steinberger (AKA NS design) is credited as building the first ALL CF instrument in 1980. It was a bass guitar and was later followed by its guitar sibling. Some of Steinberger's early endorsees included Eddie Van Halen, Mark Knopfler and David Bowie.



Steinberger later sold his company to Gibson who eventually discontinued production of these instruments.
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Last edited by Sonics; 10-08-2019 at 03:08 AM.
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  #30  
Old 10-08-2019, 03:59 AM
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Thanks all for the update info.

I began looking around a bit to learn more about Maccaferri. I'm amazed at what I read.

Education ending at age 9, he became a concert guitarist, almost a movie star, and then due to an injury, a luthier (wood). He is still famous for these early instruments though he designed for Selmer for only a short time.

Later, he uprooted his life and moved to the USA and the rest is a life of thinking WAY outside the box in so many ways. He made millions with his plastic uke, though the plastic guitar didn't catch on the same. Still, both the uke and guitar were quality instruments--as much as plastic can allow. The company still exists today in some form.

Really an amazing man and amazing life. I think the timeline has to start with him.

The first link is the best, most detailed info I could find anywhere on him. I could never find great detail on just the guitar, but it might be found in a biography (book) that is not fully online.

https://www.djangobooks.com/blog/mar...ssical_guitar/

https://crispertarou.tk/condemn/gaet...phy-books.html
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