l.r. baggs I-Beam or Fishman Infinity Matrix?

tenniso · #1 08-27-2009, 02:09 PM

thinking about getting one of these two systems for my fg730s. anyone here have experience with these?

southpaw pete · #2 08-27-2009, 03:11 PM

I've used both, and would say that both are very nice. I love the sound of the ibeam. In my experience, it is way warmer and more natural than the matrix. But, unfortunately, in my jumbo guild it was too boomy; there was too much body resonance or something, and though I tried numerous placements and eq, sound hole cover... I couldn't tame it for live performance. So I switched to the matrix infinity. I really like the infinity as well - though it isn't as natural, it works better for the larger body styles and stage volume as far as clarity and feedback control. I also really like their new eq scoop setup. Very useful.
So, I would say it depends on the body style of your guitars. If it is a smaller body I would go with the ibeam.
BTW, when using the matrix infinity, I run through an AG Stomp pedal which warms up the sound very nicely for live performance.

ljguitar · #3 08-27-2009, 03:32 PM

Hi tenniso...
Every iBeam I've worked with is highly feedback prone. Good tone, just hyper-sensitive to feedback regardless of the guitars they are in. They are really effective for small venue where sound reinforcement (a slight boost to the natural sound) is needed rather than full PA use. I've worked with mics that were less feedback prone than iBeams.

And they are touchy to install (as in get it in the right location under the bridgeplate). I used to hear people say, ''We got it in the right spot in only three tries'' and I wasn't willing to use things that are that much work...

Another alternative with at least as good tone and without the uber-sensitivity is the K&K Pure western mini. The PUTW (pickup the world) or the McIntire ''feather'' are good choices too. All these sound better than magnetic or undersaddle pickups.

jaskofall · #4 08-27-2009, 03:48 PM

Hey there,

I have just installed an iMix system in my 314, I think it sounds great.
the iBeam isnt that boomy at all, I think it all comes down to how you mount it.
When I installed it, I placed it inline with the saddle, then I hinged the bass side about 5mm towards the soundhole to try and remove some of the boomy bass frequencies that it might pick up, and it works perfectly. Its not boomy at all.
All my playing is in small to medium venues with speakers close by and I haven't had any trouble with feedback, and I hit the guitar pretty hard and play at some really loud volumes.
I have sometimes been mixing this system with a sunrise mag as well.

I would be installing a dual source system as I find that one source never really satisfies. I would recommend these;

Baggs iMix or Dtar wavelength dual source - If you are playing med to loud gigs
K&K trinity system - if you are experienced in avoiding feedback, its not hard to avoid feedback but it does take some experience. This is a great natural sounding system.

You could also team any of these systems with a Mag as well.

My fav plugged in sound at the moment ids the iMix teamed with a sunrise mag. It is the best plugged in sound I have ever heard

I wouldn't narrow you choices down to just the iBeam or the matrix, there are a lot more options out there.

What style do you play, what kind of systems do you play through?? These will have a bigh impact on the system that you should choose

HHP · #5 08-27-2009, 04:06 PM

Have an iBeam in a Takamine I own. Don't play through big amps or at high volume. Best I can say about it you can plug in, turn volume all the way down, play the guitar. Slowly raise volume as you play and the only change you hear is the sound it louder.

tenniso · #6 08-27-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaskofall

Hey there,

I have just installed an iMix system in my 314, I think it sounds great.
the iBeam isnt that boomy at all, I think it all comes down to how you mount it.
When I installed it, I placed it inline with the saddle, then I hinged the bass side about 5mm towards the soundhole to try and remove some of the boomy bass frequencies that it might pick up, and it works perfectly. Its not boomy at all.
All my playing is in small to medium venues with speakers close by and I haven't had any trouble with feedback, and I hit the guitar pretty hard and play at some really loud volumes.
I have sometimes been mixing this system with a sunrise mag as well.

I would be installing a dual source system as I find that one source never really satisfies. I would recommend these;

Baggs iMix or Dtar wavelength dual source - If you are playing med to loud gigs
K&K trinity system - if you are experienced in avoiding feedback, its not hard to avoid feedback but it does take some experience. This is a great natural sounding system.

You could also team any of these systems with a Mag as well.

My fav plugged in sound at the moment ids the iMix teamed with a sunrise mag. It is the best plugged in sound I have ever heard

I wouldn't narrow you choices down to just the iBeam or the matrix, there are a lot more options out there.

What style do you play, what kind of systems do you play through?? These will have a bigh impact on the system that you should choose

i play a yamaha fg730s in a medium sized-noisy bar. i go thru the PA which is way overpowered for the size of the bar. i play old school country or popular music from the '60's-'80's. i lean more toward the mountain music stuff and will probably end up playing more of that, and i might start playing at different places and have no idea what the set-up might be there. i want versatility for sure, and dont mind sacrificing some "natural acoustic sound" to get it. i figure that in a noisy enviornment the crowd cant hear every nuance so giving up some natural sound isn't that big of a deal. keep in mind that i just started playing out so i am not familiar with all the details of live sound reproduction.

jaskofall · #7 08-27-2009, 04:36 PM

I would go with an iMix system if I were you, with the element and M1 combo instead of the iBeam.
It will sound really thick and beefy and you will never need to worry about feedback.
The M1 actually sounds quite microphonic and mixed really well with the element

Jasko

guitaniac · #8 08-27-2009, 06:34 PM

In can't comment on the Infinity, but the choice between the single-source iBeam and the iMix is a no-brainer for anyone playing noisy bars. Choose the iMix.

I'm not a big fan of the Baggs Element UST by itself, but blending in some iBeam signal adds a lot of dynamic zip and responsiveness when transitioning to a hard strumming attack. (I mention this for the benefit of anyone who might think that increased top ambience is the iBeam's only advantage.) For a noisy bar setting, I found that a UST/iBeam blend of 70/30 worked pretty well. In the interest of full disclosure, it should be mentioned that I'd usually use a Baggs PADI to EQ the signal and notch down some boominess in the vicinity of 160Hz (with my particular guitar).

At one point I experimented with adding an M1 to the mix (for a total of three sources), using the M1 for some added bass end only. That seemed to work especially well, but it was a bit of a hassle as I don't have a blender and was running thru two preamps to two mixer channels. It should be mentioned that I needed to reverse the polarity of one of the two signals for a good blend.

Gary

tenniso · #9 08-27-2009, 08:04 PM

i forgot to mention that i am on a budget which really narrows down my choices. i currently have a fishman neo-d single coil. it sounds ok, but is a pain with the chord hanging down and my strings hit it when i play above the 8th fret because my action is pretty low. also, the output is pretty low.

what do you guys think about running the fishman thru a preamp like the fishman g-II or a baggs para di? then i could figure out a way to mount the neo-d so that my strings dont hit it and install an end pin jack.

jaskofall · #10 08-27-2009, 08:11 PM

Hey there,

the output of the fishman is pretty low because it is a passive pickup and NEEDS some form of preamp to sound acceptable.

Can you please post a photo of your guitar with the neo d in it as something must be seriously wrong for the strings to be hitting it like that.

About the chord hanging down, why don't you install the chord with the attached endpin.
That might fix the chord hanging down problem, maybe I think

Jasko

tenniso · #11 08-27-2009, 09:42 PM

i fixed the problem of the strings hitting the pickup by removing the cork pads on the the ends where the screws are. now to get an end pin jack and wire the pickup to it. then i think i might get a decent pre-amp.

i was thinking about the fishman powerjack. that way i have my preamp, got rid of the dangling cord, and have an end pin jack all in one. i called fishman tech support and they said the powerjack will work with the neo-d. seems like a good solution for $60.

am i off base here?

RustyAxe · #12 08-27-2009, 10:03 PM

I removed an I-Beam from my D-35, and replaced it with a Fishman Matrix Infinity. The I-Beam was feedback prone (VERY) and the tone was always boomy (as a D-35 can be!). The Infinity is much better for live work, IMHO. I have a Baggs Element VTC in my Breedlove OM .... and that sounds good, too. I find the Fishman has better pots for volume and tone.

guitaniac · #13 08-27-2009, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenniso

i fixed the problem of the strings hitting the pickup by removing the cork pads on the the ends where the screws are. now to get an end pin jack and wire the pickup to it. then i think i might get a decent pre-amp.

i was thinking about the fishman powerjack. that way i have my preamp, got rid of the dangling cord, and have an end pin jack all in one. i called fishman tech support and they said the powerjack will work with the neo-d. seems like a good solution for $60.

am i off base here?

Personally, I think you'd be better off with an outboard preamp such as the PADI, or Fishman Platinum Pro EQ, which would give you decent EQ capability and volume control, as well as several other handy features. Both preamps can be phantom powered, have a DI out and have a phase inversion switch. The Platinum has a ground lift, a tuner out and a "smooth" feature as well (though the "smooth" feature is most useful with piezo pickups).

The advantage of the powerjack would be that it would prevent the signal loss caused by running the passive Neo-D signal thru a length of cable to the outboard preamp. That isn't too much of a problem with mag pickups, however, if one uses a relatively short (10' or less), high-quality cable between guitar and preamp.

Gary