Eq at preamp or amp?

[bobc]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

Hey Chris,

It's important to note (for those that aren't sure) the LR Baggs Para DI IS NOT a pre-amp. It is an eq and DI.

Sorry to say, but it IS a pre-amp. It's an EQ and a DI, but it's also a pre-amp. It has GAIN and VOLUME.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by bobc

Sorry to say, but it IS a pre-amp. It's an EQ and a DI, but it's also a pre-amp. It has GAIN and VOLUME.

I guess I should have been a bit more specific You're right it does have Gain and Volume. But so do Digital Reverbs, Compressors and most rack mount EQ's and it is in that spirit anything that can provide gain would fall under the catagory of Pre Amp. Which of course in theory doesn't pan. It is also true you'll hear in some reviews it being called a pre-amp and in fact it's in the "Pre-Amp" section of the LR Baggs web site.

The Para DI however was not (by it's design) to provide the user pre amp like capabilities. It is a Direct Injection box with eq. The thought is that most would plug their high impedance guitar into the box and use the balanced low impedance XLR out. That and a grand majority of users would most likely then plug into some type mixer at the pre amp stage.

By comparison I would not be tempted to plug my Grace pre amp into a Mackie mixer. The "gain" stages of the Grace and Mackie are similar and redundant. The strengths of both the Mackie pre amp and the Grace would be compromised.

The Para DI's gain structure is primarily design to create unity with whatever pickup one uses at any given time and while I do understand there is some gain to be had (especially compared to the gain structure of the guitar pickup alone) you'd have a dickens of a time using that DI box direct into Pro Tools or direct to a power amp.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

...The Para DI however was not (by it's design) to provide the user pre amp like capabilities. ...

...The Para DI's gain structure is primarily design to create unity with whatever pickup one uses at any given time and while I do understand there is some gain to be had (especially compared to the gain structure of the guitar pickup alone) you'd have a dickens of a time using that DI box direct into Pro Tools or direct to a power amp. ...

How would the Para Acoustic D.I. design have to be modified to make it a true preamplifier? What part of its performance falls short of a preamplifier?

Why would using the Para Acoustic D.I. to drive a power amplifier be problematic?

[zb0430]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

I guess I should have been a bit more specific You're right it does have Gain and Volume. But so do Digital Reverbs, Compressors and most rack mount EQ's and it is in that spirit anything that can provide gain would fall under the catagory of Pre Amp. Which of course in theory doesn't pan. It is also true you'll hear in some reviews it being called a pre-amp and in fact it's in the "Pre-Amp" section of the LR Baggs web site.

The Para DI however was not (by it's design) to provide the user pre amp like capabilities. It is a Direct Injection box with eq. The thought is that most would plug their high impedance guitar into the box and use the balanced low impedance XLR out. That and a grand majority of users would most likely then plug into some type mixer at the pre amp stage.

By comparison I would not be tempted to plug my Grace pre amp into a Mackie mixer. The "gain" stages of the Grace and Mackie are similar and redundant. The strengths of both the Mackie pre amp and the Grace would be compromised.

The Para DI's gain structure is primarily design to create unity with whatever pickup one uses at any given time and while I do understand there is some gain to be had (especially compared to the gain structure of the guitar pickup alone) you'd have a dickens of a time using that DI box direct into Pro Tools or direct to a power amp.

Sorry to be blunt... But you're not right on this one. And I don't even like the PARA DI.

For all intents and purposes, anything that actively adds gain is a pre-amp. Controllability of pre-amps varies, and units designed specifically for the purpose of serving as a pre-amp generally posses more controllable variables than other "pre-amps" in the chain. Call it what you will, buffer, pre-amp, gain stage...

[geokie8]

Originally Posted by NevadaPic

Help me out folks. I have a Baggs Para Di between various acoustics and a Fishman Performer Loudbox. I adjust Eq on the Para DI but what do I do on the Fishman? Do I leave everything straight up (ie. out of circuit) or what?

Thanks!

Pic

With the standard disclaimer that there's no one approach, and recognizing that there are already a number of good suggestions -- including experimention --I'll build on bobc's response:

The guys that run sound boards often ask for a flat signal to be sent to them and want to EQ the sound at the board. The problem with that approach is that many amplified acoustics simply don't sound that good with a flat signal so they end up trying to "fix" the sound while also EQ'ing the guitar for the room/mix at the same time.

Therefore, I'd use the Baggs to intially EQ your guitar (and would agree that the Baggs does a better-than-average job at this because of its ability to notch the mids which is usually preferable to the sweep EQ found on most boards/amps). While EQ'ing the guitar, send the signal to something you can monitor with phones so that the room isn't coloring the signal. In theory, that's the best possible amplified sound you can get from your guitar/preamp setup.

Now that you've (hopefully) got your guitar sounding good, the EQ at the board (or amp, in your case) is dedicated to the single task of compensating for the room and/or mix. In your case, it might be left flat or you might make some minor tweaks.

If you drop your guitar into a band, the sound man will almost always cut your bass no matter how good you think your overall sound is (and this is doubly true if you like the sound of a bassy acoustic). Therefore, if the signal the Baggs is sending is too hot in the bass, he may ask you to cut the lows.

geokie8

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by NevadaPic

Help me out folks. I have a Baggs Para Di between various acoustics and a Fishman Performer Loudbox. I adjust Eq on the Para DI but what do I do on the Fishman? Do I leave everything straight up (ie. out of circuit) or what?

Thanks!

Pic

Hi Pic...
With any rig I start with everything plugged in, and both the amp and preamp set flat, and listen with my eyes closed, and try for an overall pleasing/acurate EQ from the amp first, then if there are still deficiencies, I tweak with the preamp.

Hope this helps...

[NevadaPic]

Thanks once again to everyone for the information you have provided. As a result I've got everything dialed in to a balance that I like for my AJ that works in this room. The biggest problem was dealing with excess boominess in the bass that I was able to remove with a different Notch setting.

Anyways, I will adjust accordingly to differences in venue as needed. Different room/hall/venue acoustics will be the next challenge for me. I've got a lot to go on though, thanks to ya'll!