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Old 08-22-2009, 06:51 PM
NevadaPic NevadaPic is offline
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Default Eq at preamp or amp?

Help me out folks. I have a Baggs Para Di between various acoustics and a Fishman Performer Loudbox. I adjust Eq on the Para DI but what do I do on the Fishman? Do I leave everything straight up (ie. out of circuit) or what?

Thanks!

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Old 08-22-2009, 06:54 PM
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Probably what ever sounds best. Have you been experimenting?
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Old 08-22-2009, 07:20 PM
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I have been experimenting for weeks now. I'm not sure that I am somewhat defeating and/or duplicating settings between the two however. Mostly I concentrate on the Baggs Para DI for Eq but then I look at all those controls on the Fishman...
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Old 08-22-2009, 07:24 PM
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Just what you are doing I would suggest. Is there something about the sound you are not satisfied with?
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Old 08-22-2009, 08:06 PM
jaskofall jaskofall is offline
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HI There,

I would be tempted to try it without the Baggs. Just do this to make sure that with the baggs there you are actually adding to the sound not subtracting from it. The loudbox should have adequate tone shaping controls on it.
What pickups are you using in the guitars, aand are they active or passive??

JAsko
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Old 08-22-2009, 08:23 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Aloha,

The EQ section of a PADI is notoriously weak, lacking in depth and not very useful for fine-tuning tone in many frequencies. I'd use EQ from another source if you are playing in a variety of venues on a regular basis or upgrade to a better preamp, like a Fishman Pro-Platinum or DTAR Solstice. If you're playing mostly at home, then use whichever EQ source works best for you.

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Old 08-22-2009, 08:31 PM
NevadaPic NevadaPic is offline
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Thanks, ya'll for the advice. I am playing a Gibson AJ w/ Fishman Rare Earth Blender and a Gibson J-150 w/ Fishman Matrix Infinity. I am not sure that I need the Baggs Para DI but I must say that after I put it into the mix, so to speak, I was more impressed with the sound. I'm more a guitar player than a technician. Stuff is so complicated these days...

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Old 08-23-2009, 06:48 AM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is offline
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I would think the choice of eq's (especially if it's a question of either or) would be which eq is better.

I disagree with whomever suggested the Para DI is not a good eq. It has logically selected eq frequency points. 5k is an aggressive eq point and perfect for doing exactly what LR Baggs chose to label it. Presence. A little goes a long way and for live work in small doses can maintain your general guitar sound you've worked on and bring it forward to compensate for an unexpected noisy environment. 5k is not an overly pleasant frequency for most guitars but it serves a workhorse function.

10k is ok. I've heard eq's with better 10k and up "air" but the cost was in the 10x more area. Either way the "treble" control allows some fairly smooth air without getting clanky.

If there is a section that could be considered as having a lack of aggression it would be the mid section. The Q is wide and very gentle and not capable of notch type bell curves. That is of course by design and having an Art 5 band parametric in my acoustic rack (and unused) I can tell you that variable Q has the obvious advantages but also carries the weight of ENDLESS tweaking and try as I might the smoothness of the Para makes for easier adjustments. All in all a GREAT Eq and Direct Box and mixing for a living 10 hours a day 6 days a week I find nothing weak or lacking in depth on this unit. It does what it does remarkably well for it's cost

That said if the Fishman has these types of features and more AND the Eq sounds better (and eq's definitely sound different) that's the one I'd chose.

Did any of that make sense?

Last edited by Joseph Hanna; 08-23-2009 at 10:47 AM. Reason: third grade copywriting skills amended..slightly
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:18 AM
NevadaPic NevadaPic is offline
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Joseph,

Thanks for the information. My challenge is not choosing between two different Eq DI boxes, it is do I Eq on the Para DI or the Fishman Performer amplifier itself or both. From my experimentation so far I have been getting good results from the Para DI but I am not sure what to do with Eq on the amp itself. Do I leave everything straight up (out of circuit) on the amp or what? There are a lot of variables here and I do not fully understand all of the controls or the appropriate settings for the controls.

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Old 08-23-2009, 09:40 AM
KevWind KevWind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NevadaPic View Post
Joseph,

Thanks for the information. My challenge is not choosing between two different Eq DI boxes, it is do I Eq on the Para DI or the Fishman Performer amplifier itself or both. From my experimentation so far I have been getting good results from the Para DI but I am not sure what to do with Eq on the amp itself. Do I leave everything straight up (out of circuit) on the amp or what? There are a lot of variables here and I do not fully understand all of the controls or the appropriate settings for the controls.

Pic
There are certainly more qualified people to answer than myself but I believe that IN theory (but not always in practice) 1 eq might be more desirable than two. So it you like the DI's EQ sound then yes you should leave the amp EQ settings at flat if you only want one boost or cut in the chain.. However I also think that this really does not take the amps EQ circuit out of the signal chain.. Actually that would only take that EQ's boost and cut out , while your signal would still be going through the amps EQ circuit.
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Old 08-23-2009, 10:58 AM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NevadaPic View Post
Joseph,

Thanks for the information. My challenge is not choosing between two different Eq DI boxes, it is do I Eq on the Para DI or the Fishman Performer amplifier itself or both. From my experimentation so far I have been getting good results from the Para DI but I am not sure what to do with Eq on the amp itself. Do I leave everything straight up (out of circuit) on the amp or what? There are a lot of variables here and I do not fully understand all of the controls or the appropriate settings for the controls.

Pic
I'd want to know what the Fishman folks consider that amp set flat. Call em. Tell you want the flattest possible starting point. I'd then work with the eq in the Para until you were comfortable. As I said in another post here eq can be a brain teaser. Works in small changes and MOST importantly stick with those small changes for a significant amount of time. Spinning eq knobs endlessly for hours on end (sort of in a dog chasing it's tail manner) is a recipe for disaster. Let you mind, ears and fingers get used to the sound. Sometimes the sound although not whats in our heads is much better than originally perceived. I don't know how many stories I've encountered by pro's who said things like "after years of working with this eq it's amazing how I've reverted to something closer to flat than I started with.

It's often the constant changing of both equipment and in this case eq that fuels the chase for the holy grail
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Old 08-23-2009, 11:56 AM
bobc bobc is offline
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Some basic rules of thumb for EQ are...

1. a little goes a long way.

2. always try to cut instead of boosting.

3. EQ in as few places as possible.

If I had your gear, I would proceed as follows...

Set everything flat (no boost, no cut) on your guitar, PADI, and amp.

Set the volume to as close to performance level as you can. Your EQ will be different at higher levels.

play while listening and make very small adjustments to the PADI's EQ. Normally, acoustic guitars need a slight mid cut to take the harshness out, so start with the mid's and only make very small adjustments. The idea is to use as little EQ as possible to get the best sound. Also, the PADI has a sweep able mid, so each time you make a slight change, sweep it back and forth to home in on the sweet spot.

Let some time go by for your ears to adjust back to normal. This may sound funny, but it's important in that, your ears are adjusting to the sound as you are going through this process, and you need to let them go back to normal to verify what you are actually hearing.

Play some more and fine tune if needed.

Remember your settings and this will give you a good starting point to go by every time.

Now that you have your sound the way you want it, you must realize that every room is different, and that you may have to adjust for that. If the room has a lot of things that absorb sound (carpeting, people, curtains) you may have to cut the base a little. If the room has a lot of things that reflect sound (glass, polished wood, etc...) you may have to cut the treble/mids a little. This is where the amp's eq comes in. You could use the amp's eq to adjust for the room while still maintaining the tone of your guitar through the PADI.

This is only my opinion, but it is the approach I would take.

Hope this helps.
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:31 PM
NevadaPic NevadaPic is offline
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Thanks ya'll for the help! Now I have a much better feel for what I need to do. As it happens I have been proceeding as ya'll have suggested more-or-less. I just need more time and different venues to apply what I have learned from everyones replies.
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:52 PM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alohachris View Post
Aloha,

The EQ section of a PADI is notoriously weak, lacking in depth and not very useful for fine-tuning tone in many frequencies. I'd use EQ from another source if you are playing in a variety of venues on a regular basis or upgrade to a better preamp, like a Fishman Pro-Platinum or DTAR Solstice. If you're playing mostly at home, then use whichever EQ source works best for you.

alohachris
When someone says a preamp is weak, I assume they mean the output is below the line level standard. Is that what you mean? Also, I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say it lacks depth.
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Old 08-23-2009, 02:10 PM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alohachris View Post
Aloha,

The EQ section of a PADI is notoriously weak, lacking in depth and not very useful for fine-tuning tone in many frequencies. I'd use EQ from another source if you are playing in a variety of venues on a regular basis or upgrade to a better preamp, like a Fishman Pro-Platinum or DTAR Solstice. If you're playing mostly at home, then use whichever EQ source works best for you.

alohachris

Hey Chris,

It's important to note (for those that aren't sure) the LR Baggs Para DI IS NOT a pre-amp. It is an eq and DI.
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