The power of the AGF

harvl · #1 09-03-2013, 12:26 AM

Keith's recent postings of a couple of his Leach guitars reminded me of just how positive discussions on this forum can be... even if they sometimes get a little too personal. A while back there was a lengthy discussion about the concerns of deposits paid to builders and the risks that are taken... by both sides should something unforeseen happen. As is well documented in this thread...
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=242067
...a customer can pay in a lot of money and be left with a difficult path to recouping their money or getting the guitar. Through the power of that discussion Keith was able to connect with me and he was finally able get the results he was looking for.

But as I said there are 2 sides to the problem... what recourse does a builder have if during a build the customer passes away? The easy answer is that you just sell it to someone else... right? If you build a lot of guitars that are very unique it's not that simple. I tend to build very unique one of a kind guitars that are... well... for just one person... so who is there to save the builder when he needs it? The answer is... people like Keith who stepped up on this guitar...
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=308469
... which I was left with after one of my best customers passed away last winter. Fortunately it was at a point where it could be customized to something of his likening.

See... without that discussion (which if I recall turned a bit ugly in parts) BOTH of these guitars would be sitting, uncompleted on a shelf (or worse) somewhere. Sometimes the AGF just works!!!

Harv

P.S. Keith... I'm currently working on a quote for a guitar that will take me 2 1/2 years to complete... can I have your Visa number??? ...just in case

Larry Pattis · #2 09-03-2013, 08:58 AM

It's interesting that you bring this up, Harvey...especially on some very (appropriately!) high-end instruments.

I wonder if any builders have contracts for their clients with any kind of "unforeseen death" clauses (for either/both sides)...? (I have no idea what the legal terminology would be for this)

I suspect that most people that can afford the $10K+ guitars have more than this amount as their net worth (substantially more)....and regardless of net-worth, it seems to me that a build-contract would be like any other legal obligation that the customer takes on, for which his/her estate would owe upon, if the customer dies after work has commenced.

dylanheeg · #3 09-03-2013, 09:29 AM

I was one of the folks that had money into Kevin Gallagher at the time we lost him. So I can attest to what it feels like to be on that side of the equation. Fortunately for me, Don Sharp stepped up and offered to take over the build at a significant discount.

It is cool to see, Harv, that you had a similar experience with a customer (Keith) that worked out positively.

GerryinAZ · #4 09-03-2013, 09:40 AM

I, too, am a veteran of custom instrument experiences.

It's very cool, and rare that the bumps were able to be smoothed over in the forum environment. "Kudos!" to the AGF folks.

My experience was in the mandolin world and there have been some doozies over there in that crowd. Way more than just "...a bit ugly" Both, from the buyer and builder camps.

It would take a pretty special reason for me to go into one of these situations again, and if I do there will be more legal paperwork than most would care to deal with before I ink a deal.

harvl · #5 09-03-2013, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dylanheeg

I was one of the folks that had money into Kevin Gallagher at the time we lost him. So I can attest to what it feels like to be on that side of the equation. Fortunately for me, Don Sharp stepped up and offered to take over the build at a significant discount.

It is cool to see, Harv, that you had a similar experience with a customer (Keith) that worked out positively.

Just to be clear... Keith was the solution to my problem... not the cause

Harv

harvl · #6 09-03-2013, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

It's interesting that you bring this up, Harvey...especially on some very (appropriately!) high-end instruments.

I wonder if any builders have contracts for their clients with any kind of "unforeseen death" clauses (for either/both sides)...? (I have no idea what the legal terminology would be for this)

I suspect that most people that can afford the $10K+ guitars have more than this amount as their net worth (substantially more)....and regardless of net-worth, it seems to me that a build-contract would be like any other legal obligation that the customer takes on, for which his/her estate would owe upon, if the customer dies after work has commenced.

First of all I didn't post this to resurface the old argument so hopefully this thread won't go there again... I've been at the short end a couple of times and I wouldn't change a thing. To take a drastic measure like some sort of contract would be a deal breaker for me...

The only point I was trying to make is that through discussion good people can create good results from the ashes of a deal that has soured...

Harv

pitner · #7 09-03-2013, 10:54 AM

I am glad for AGF. When I bought my 2 handmade guitars I really did some homework before laying out the cash. My final conclusion was to buy used and in the case of my Olson buy tested in person. Today I am very glad to own a really beautiful Olson SJ and a great looking and sounding Goodall Royal Hawaiian. AGF helped me with values and judgement on the most important guitar purchases of my lifetime.

RP · #8 09-03-2013, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harvl

First of all I didn't post this to resurface the old argument so hopefully this thread won't go there again... I've been at the short end a couple of times and I wouldn't change a thing. To take a drastic measure like some sort of contract would be a deal breaker for me...

The only point I was trying to make is that through discussion good people can create good results from the ashes of a deal that has soured...

Harv

The bold underlined portion of the above quote is well worth emphasizing....

cpabolting · #9 09-03-2013, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harvl

Just to be clear... Keith was the solution to my problem... not the cause

Harv

For a change....

Glennwillow · #10 09-03-2013, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harvl

... The only point I was trying to make is that through discussion good people can create good results from the ashes of a deal that has soured...

Harv

This is great, Harvey!

I'm glad Keith was able to work with you to save a big loss for you. The AGF definitely does plenty of good for people!

- Glenn

J.R. Rogers · #11 09-03-2013, 04:58 PM

Harvey, thank you for posting this. It means a lot to me as you can imagine.

JR

cpabolting · #12 09-03-2013, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

This is great, Harvey!

I'm glad Keith was able to work with you to save a big loss for you. The AGF definitely does plenty of good for people!

- Glenn

And I wound up with a cool custom new guitar that is not only gorgeous, but sounds great. Harv builds great guitars!

harvl · #13 09-04-2013, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.R. Rogers

Harvey, thank you for posting this. It means a lot to me as you can imagine.

JR

It's a good place to hang... thanks for building it!

Harv

jperryrocks · #14 09-04-2013, 05:58 PM

Most high end luthiers are not going to inlay people's names in the fretboard...or something weird like that.

I'd say never build anything you couldn't sell to another customer.

If you're in that upper echelon of builders with waiting lists that span into the years and prices are frequently over $10,000... somebody/somewhere will buy it.

cpabolting · #15 09-04-2013, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jperryrocks

Most high end luthiers are not going to inlay people's names in the fretboard...or something weird like that.

I'd say never build anything you couldn't sell to another customer.

If you're in that upper echelon of builders with waiting lists that span into the years and prices are frequently over $10,000... somebody/somewhere will buy it.

Easier said than done

Also easier said than done

That may be the case...but you cannot deposit at the bank what you will get from somebody/somewhere!