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  #1  
Old 01-14-2020, 01:38 PM
Sonics Sonics is offline
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Default A question for experienced players...

I'm still recovering from the passing of the great Neil Peart, and while browsing YouTube I found this video which inspired this question:



Neil reached the ceiling of his abilities in his mid 40's and couldn't progress further...so he implemented a 'hard' reset, dismissed everything he knew and went back to the beginning and found teachers. Guess what? A year or so later he was BETTER than before.

Would you consider re-learning the guitar from scratch?
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:59 PM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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I probably should!

Not sure if it could ever be from scratch though...too much ingrained...I don't think I'm strong enough to let go of all of it.
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  #3  
Old 01-14-2020, 05:00 PM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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...so he implemented a 'hard' reset, dismissed everything he knew
That would have been impossible. He could have reworked or discarded some habits and change his focus to some other specific goals.
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Old 01-14-2020, 06:12 PM
Su_H. Su_H. is offline
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I'm sort of doing that right now...not completely from scratch but rebuilding my right hand which has plagued me all these years.

I'm not Neil. I'm not trying to revamp myself or anything. I have 2 simple goals. 1. Get better. 2. Play Austurias.
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:06 PM
Gordon Currie Gordon Currie is offline
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If I had hit the ceiling, then yes.

But it hasn't happened. I keep progressing.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:08 PM
DukeX DukeX is online now
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No. I'm not that good, but I keep progressing in the areas that are important to me. And I'm having fun while doing it.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:55 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonics View Post
Would you consider re-learning the guitar from scratch?
Short answer: no.

Like others here, I don't feel I've reached any kind of ceiling or dead end yet. I don't detect any such thing at any time in the future, and I've been playing for 54 years.

That's not to say that some lessons might not iron out some issues in my technique. It wouldn't mean re-learning anything, or changing anythng fundamental. Just polishing up some areas which have got a bit lazy. (I kind of know what they are anyway. I could polish them up myself without any lessons, but ... yeah I'm too lazy. )

It would only be some serious accident that stopped me being able to play the usual way that would make me want to relearn from scratch. (There are famous jazz players who've done that: Django Reinhardt and Pat Martino.)
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Old 01-16-2020, 11:30 PM
1neeto 1neeto is offline
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Default A question for experienced players...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonics View Post
I'm still recovering from the passing of the great Neil Peart, and while browsing YouTube I found this video which inspired this question:







Neil reached the ceiling of his abilities in his mid 40's and couldn't progress further...so he implemented a 'hard' reset, dismissed everything he knew and went back to the beginning and found teachers. Guess what? A year or so later he was BETTER than before.



Would you consider re-learning the guitar from scratch?


I think itís different for everyone. I have a very good friend that was an insane rock/metal guitarist. He could nail any technical solo from whatever rock guitar god you can think of...at 16 years old. As he went into his late 20ís he picked up a bass, and then got into jazz so he picked up a stand up bass. He then moved to NYC and has been playing with some big jazz names and has a cool jazz trio project going on. His playing is at a completely different level now. He rarely plays guitar but when he does he plays some crazy complicated stuff.
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:30 AM
DesertTwang DesertTwang is offline
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Would you consider re-learning the guitar from scratch?
Absolutely not. Because by the time I'll be at the peak of my abilities, I'll be 257 years old.
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  #10  
Old 01-23-2020, 12:12 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Would you consider re-learning the guitar from scratch?

I've done it twice. The first time I was 18. I applied for entrance to a university music program for music theory and composition. During the audition, I was told that I played well, but didn't sight read well enough and didn't play with classical technique. I was advised to go study classical guitar for a year and reapply. I went and studied classical guitar for a number of years, starting from scratch. I never reapplied.

Much later, I wanted to learn to arrange jazz on a guitar. I met a teacher who followed the curriculum that his teacher, Tony Braden, taught. It involved starting from scratch, starting with learning notes on one string at a time. I studied with him for 7 years.

Whether to start from scratch depends on what you want and what it takes to get you there. I could not, for example, have learned to play classical guitar by simply tacking it on to what I had been doing. It required starting from the beginning again.
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Old 01-24-2020, 09:12 AM
3notes 3notes is offline
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Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
I've done it twice. The first time I was 18. I applied for entrance to a university music program for music theory and composition. During the audition, I was told that I played well, but didn't sight read well enough and didn't play with classical technique. I was advised to go study classical guitar for a year and reapply. I went and studied classical guitar for a number of years, starting from scratch. I never reapplied.

Much later, I wanted to learn to arrange jazz on a guitar. I met a teacher who followed the curriculum that his teacher, Tony Braden, taught. It involved starting from scratch, starting with learning notes on one string at a time. I studied with him for 7 years.

Whether to start from scratch depends on what you want and what it takes to get you there. I could not, for example, have learned to play classical guitar by simply tacking it on to what I had been doing. It required starting from the beginning again.
In all seriousness, could you give us one example of a change you had to make.?? Something other than which knee to place the guitar.
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Old 01-24-2020, 10:53 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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In all seriousness, could you give us one example of a change you had to make.?? Something other than which knee to place the guitar.
There are so many things, I don't know even where to start.

The position the right arm contacts the guitar, the angle of the right wrist, the angle of the right fingers, where on the right fingers the strings strike the string, the shaping of the nails, right hand rest stroke, right hand fingers contacting the string flesh and nail at the same time, alternating plucking right hand fingers... most of which has to do with control of sound - warm/cold, emphasis of an individual note while playing a number of simultaneous notes to bring out/emphasize a melody and duration of note, volume of note - duration - staccato, legato, note separation - and speed.

The position of the left hand, not having the left palm touch the neck/keeping the thumb towards the middle of the back of the neck, keeping left hand fingers parallel to the strings/not bending left wrist left/right, playing with the tips of the left fingers, improved pull-offs/hammer-ons, multi-string barres with the pinky finger, barre chords diagonally across two frets, barring middle strings while allowing outside strings to ring...

That barely scratches the surface.

It's stuff that gives one the tools, the abilities, for greater variety in expression. It's like rather than painting with only one brush and one color, having an entire range of differing brushes from which to choose and a large pallet of colours. The brushes allow differing levels of detail and texture, while the colours enable an entirely new means of expression.

As I said before, it depends on what range of expression one wants to have. If three chord songs and some strumming fulfil the range of expression one wants to have, that's fine and pretty easily accomplished.

Last edited by charles Tauber; 01-24-2020 at 11:09 AM.
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  #13  
Old 01-24-2020, 07:11 PM
Pitar Pitar is offline
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I'm in a constantly changing technology (aviation) and learning as I go. There was a time when I needed to be good at covering an airplane with cloth, stitching, and finishing it. These days I need to be more aligned with digital technologies and their maintenance. In between it has been a very interesting curve learning and staying current with the career.

But, I don't extend that to playing guitar. Nope. One thing I learned very early on is I'll always be better tomorrow. I also learned that tomorrow never comes. I'm always better than I was the day before, though. Very strange algorithm.
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Old 01-26-2020, 06:16 PM
3notes 3notes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
There are so many things, I don't know even where to start.

The position the right arm contacts the guitar, the angle of the right wrist, the angle of the right fingers, where on the right fingers the strings strike the string, the shaping of the nails, right hand rest stroke, right hand fingers contacting the string flesh and nail at the same time, alternating plucking right hand fingers... most of which has to do with control of sound - warm/cold, emphasis of an individual note while playing a number of simultaneous notes to bring out/emphasize a melody and duration of note, volume of note - duration - staccato, legato, note separation - and speed.

The position of the left hand, not having the left palm touch the neck/keeping the thumb towards the middle of the back of the neck, keeping left hand fingers parallel to the strings/not bending left wrist left/right, playing with the tips of the left fingers, improved pull-offs/hammer-ons, multi-string barres with the pinky finger, barre chords diagonally across two frets, barring middle strings while allowing outside strings to ring...

That barely scratches the surface.

It's stuff that gives one the tools, the abilities, for greater variety in expression. It's like rather than painting with only one brush and one color, having an entire range of differing brushes from which to choose and a large pallet of colours. The brushes allow differing levels of detail and texture, while the colours enable an entirely new means of expression.

As I said before, it depends on what range of expression one wants to have. If three chord songs and some strumming fulfil the range of expression one wants to have, that's fine and pretty easily accomplished.
Just a super reply. Thanks for that.
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  #15  
Old 01-26-2020, 07:45 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3notes View Post
Just a super reply. Thanks for that.
You are welcome.
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