You folks are scaring me with this neck reset stuff

[ylekot]

As I am beginning to look for a "nicer" guitar I am of course looking at used stuff in my price range along with new.....

You people have me absolutely TERRIFIED of this neck reset business....never heard of it before joining here....

Now I'm afraid that a good deal might only be good because the seller knows it's going to need 3/4 or more of it's value in a short period of time....

How much of a problem is this really? I would LOVE to find something 1971 vintage (mostly out of my price range anyway) but don't want it to be kindling because I cannot afford to have it repaired.....

I am now leery and very suspect of anything on line.....how do check for neck angle anyway?

[s2y]

Spoken by a forum that generally doesn't keep stuff more than a few years. Fretless bassists on forums are always worried about fingerboard wear on basses they rarely play.

[davidd]

Originally Posted by ylekot

As I am beginning to look for a "nicer" guitar I am of course looking at used stuff in my price range along with new.....

You people have me absolutely TERRIFIED of this neck reset business....never heard of it before joining here....

Now I'm afraid that a good deal might only be good because the seller knows it's going to need 3/4 or more of it's value in a short period of time....

How much of a problem is this really? I would LOVE to find something 1971 vintage (mostly out of my price range anyway) but don't want it to be kindling because I cannot afford to have it repaired.....

I am now leery and very suspect of anything on line.....how do check for neck angle anyway?

Best way to check is to put a straight edge on the frets and extent it to the bridge. If the straight edge is level with the top of the bridge (not the saddle) you should be fine as long as the bridge hasn't been shaved. You should have close to 1/2" between the strings and the guitar top.

If you don't have a straight edge handy just check the string height at the 12 fret e.g 5/64" low E 4/64" high E and how much saddle is showing. I like to see approximately 1/8" saddle showing. Again, you should have close to 1/2" between the strings and the guitar top.

Not sure why 1971 is a magical era for you, in general guitars from the seventies weren't anything special IMO. There are exceptions of course.

[noledog]

* Here's a good starting point: http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musi...neckangle.html

** Dovetail neck resets are not to be feared and when done by a qualified luthier can greatly improve the playability of your guitar. Yes they can be costly, but if the guitar you have or want is a gem to you, then it's worth it.

*** Get you a measuring stick and read the link I posted first to see if it even needs one first, if so, find a qualified luthier in your area and get some prices...nothing to be terrified about.

[Wade Hampton]

OP, there’s a simple solution to this: find a trustworthy guitar repair tech within driving distance of your home, specify a return period with the seller, and then when the guitar arrives take it immediately to your trusted pro to inspect. If there’s a problem with the guitar’s neck set geometry, return the guitar to the seller.

Of course, you can minimize the hassle even further by buying locally.


whm

[jfitz81]

You'll get better responses than mine, or you can search the forum. Neck resets are nothing to be terrified of, but you're right to be concerned, especially if you're looking at 40-year-old instruments. There are a lot of factors that influence when a guitar will need a neck reset--it's really just a matter of time. The older the guitar, the more likely it is to need one (or have already had one). It's always worth asking the seller, or even having the guitar checked out by a luthier (most guitar stores will have one on staff).

A good, quick check is to look at the saddle. If there's almost no saddle left and the action is still really high, it probably needs a neck reset.

[ylekot]

Thanks for the advice folks!!

And to answer a question.....I agree that the '70's were an era of many uninspiring things.....but 1971 is my birth year....I shave with a 1971 Gillette Tech razor.....I have a bunch of stuff from 1971....I just think it's neat to have stuff the same age as me that has stood the test of time better than I have....

[ChrisN]

You're right to be concerned. There are plenty of online sellers (and in-person sellers, if they can get away with it), some pros, but mostly individual sellers who got burned themselves and now want to move the problem down to the next buyer without getting tagged for the $$, who will happily fail to disclose that a guitar they're selling needs a reset. They rationalize the failure because there's no bright line moment when it's time for a reset. Like the process that creates the need, it's gradual, and you can make adjustments to the saddle and bridge for quite a while before that music stops and the action's just too high to play. So, there's "it needs a reset now" (action too high, no more saddle to reduce), versus "it's probably going to need a reset in 1-2 years" (saddle can be reduced a bit more, but that's it). That grey zone of "needs to be done" now versus later is what gives sellers the cover they need to avoid mentioning the issue. It's up to the buyer to beware, and do his due diligence to avoid getting burned.

The neck joint you fear is the glued dovetail - that's the expensive one. Safe play is to get a Taylor with their post-2000 shimmed neck - even if it needs a reset, it's a 20 minute $50-75 deal by anyone who's watched their training video, no risk of injury to the guitar, no relying on the skill/experience of the luthier. Another good option is a bolt-on neck that allows for easy/cheap disassembly/adjustment.

As for the '71 fixation - be aware that guitars have a service life that can be extended via repairs - any guitar that old is likely to need work that may cost more than the guitar is worth.

[ylekot]

Originally Posted by ChrisN

The neck joint you fear is the glued dovetail - that's the expensive one. Safe play is to get a Taylor with their post-2000 shimmed neck -

As for the '71 fixation - be aware that guitars have a service life that can be extended via repairs - any guitar that old is likely to need work that may cost more than the guitar is worth.

Is Taylor the only company using shimmed necks?

And yeah from my research I might have to give up on the 1971 idea...

[Goat Mick]

It's really more of something to be aware of than to be terrified of. If you're looking at a guitar and the action is pretty high but the saddle is not showing much above the bridge then walk away unless the price is low enough to justify doing a neck reset. Not all guitars will need a reset. My '59 J-45 has never had a reset and isn't showing any signs of needing one so far. And that sucker has gotten a lot of play and a lot of gigs. Just be aware of what to look for and you'll be fine.

[zombywoof]

A neck reset is no big deal. In the past decade I have had four neck sets done. All the guitars have dovetail joints and the work ran me $300 to $350. It is the badly cupped neck you should fear. The last guitar I had worked on had no adjustable truss rod and a severely bowed neck. The fix amounts to not only the resetting the neck but planing the board or the neck and a refret which in my case meant compression frets which I gather is Martin's favorite way of dealing with this issue these days (the guitar was not a Martin). Based on the value of this particular guitar I am pretty much underwater on it. But I really like the thing so could care less about what it cost to fix it up.

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by Goat Whiskey Picks

It's really more of something to be aware of than to be terrified of. If you're looking at a guitar and the action is pretty high but the saddle is not showing much above the bridge then walk away unless the price is low enough to justify doing a neck reset. Not all guitars will need a reset. My '59 J-45 has never had a reset and isn't showing any signs of needing one so far. And that sucker has gotten a lot of play and a lot of gigs. Just be aware of what to look for and you'll be fine.

When it comes to most guitars it has been said there are only two kinds out there - those that have had a neck reset and those that will need one. It sure is a rule of thumb when it comes to Harmonys and Kays. Maybe it is just the luck of the draw but in the past 55 years I have owned Gibsons built between 1935 and 1961 and not one of them has ever had or needed a neck reset.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by ylekot

As I am beginning to look for a "nicer" guitar I am of course looking at used stuff in my price range along with new.....

You people have me absolutely TERRIFIED of this neck reset business....never heard of it before joining here....

Now I'm afraid that a good deal might only be good because the seller knows it's going to need 3/4 or more of it's value in a short period of time....

How much of a problem is this really? I would LOVE to find something 1971 vintage (mostly out of my price range anyway) but don't want it to be kindling because I cannot afford to have it repaired.....

I am now leery and very suspect of anything on line.....how do check for neck angle anyway?

Hi y

Don't be alarmed. There are significantly more guitars which never need a neck reset than those which do. My Olson is over 25 yrs old, and the neck is apparently as good as the day I received it.

And my Bashkin and Kronbauer are 12 & 15 yrs old, and not in need of a reset either.

I'm ALWAYS suspect of guitars on line. There are plenty of great articles as to how to check neck angle online, and it should be a consideration when purchasing high ticket instruments.

I'm a PLAY (and hold it in my hands when possible) before PAY kind of guy.

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by ylekot

Is Taylor the only company using shimmed necks?

So far as I'm aware - they're it. Don't be shy about the bolt-on without shims, though - lots of great makers using them these days and they're very easy to adjust - disassemble, shave a little wood, reassemble, maybe make a new saddle if the old one was down too far. Safe for the guitar, and $100-150 or so, not counting the saddle.

I should add that you need to think about frets, too. Lots of used guitars sold need at least a level/crown/polish ($150 or less), and older ones sometimes need a complete refret ($350 or so). Make sure you can recognize when fretwork's needed, or have a pro look at it. Same for bracing and crack issues, neck twist, functioning truss rod, previous repair quality - there's a lot to look at.

My first guitar purchase (early 1980's) was not a good one - small music store, I'd inherited an accordion in great condition (no idea of value) and wanted to trade it for an acoustic guitar. I knew nothing about how to evaluate a guitar, but I was getting it from a music store, so it must be OK. Vendor had a used student guitar from a '70s made-in-Japan brand - he recommended it for my needs with the accordion as a fair value swap. He was a musical instrument dealer, I was an idiot, so I said OK. I made a few runs at learning to play, but it never felt doable, got busy with other things for 35 years, left it stored w/o string tension, and pulled it back out once life permitted a retry. Same thing - way too hard to play. Did some research in this new internet age that didn't exist when I bought the guitar, made some measurements, and found that the guitar was well in need of a reset - action was over 8/64 at the 12th fret, and that was with the NYLON strings the previous owner had installed on that steel string guitar to bring down the action - steel would have given even higher action - the thing was a bow. The bridge already was a sliver, so no relief there, and it wasn't worth trying to shave the bridge. In short, it was a dead guitar that the music dealer handed me oh so long ago, and it wasn't worth the cost of a reset to fix it, so I gave it away on craigslist to a kid starting out, but I made it clear what the problems were, and how the best use remaining was learning/playing in the first position, only. He loved it just the same.

Not surprisingly after that experience, I now have 3 Taylors, plus an old Japanese '70s OM with a (now) bolt-on neck that I can adjust in hour with a wrench and some sandpaper. The OM was my first "real" guitar, sold to me by a luthier 2 years ago (before I educated myself) - he'd meticulously crafted a new saddle (sliver+) and nut, but with the action already at 7/64 (Martin's bright line above which it recommends a reset), and belly forming in the lightly braced guitar, it was already in need of a reset, imo, so I (not a pro, just me) defeated the vertical sliding dovetail joint and converted to the bolt-on (while retaining the sliding joint, unglued), and bolstered the belly with a Bridge Doctor - sounds great with great low action, and easily adjusted if necessary. I even made a nice, if unpretty, bone saddle with actual height. I also have a Chinese dovetail joint guitar that's in perfect shape now, but it's a cheap one that I won't hesitate to give away when the time comes. My way's not the only way, but I usually buy sight-unseen, so Taylor's are safer re: the reset issue. I don't want to buy, ship back, argue, etc. I'd make better choices now that I know what to look for.

[Jim in TC]

Originally Posted by ylekot

And yeah from my research I might have to give up on the 1971 idea...

Maybe, maybe not...a few years ago I sold a '71 D-18 that (unknown to me at the time) probably needed some attention but was completely playable, had great sound and playability. Decent condition in terms of scratch and dent (it was played all those years, after all), around $1200. You can watch here, craig's, GC etc for a bit and see what turns up.