The use of zero frets

[epluribus36]

Okay, I've gotta once again show my extreme ignorance. What's a zero fret guitar?

The picture of the guitar toward the beginning of this thread clearly has frets.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by epluribus36

Okay, I've gotta once again show my extreme ignorance. What's a zero fret guitar?

The picture of the guitar toward the beginning of this thread clearly has frets.

A zero-fret is a fret (with a traditional fret wire) in the "zero" position.

You know how the first fret is there, well the zero fret is adding a fret in the open position so the open string actually runs to a fret instead of the nut.

The guitar still needs a nut to guide the strings, so the nut is moved further away and the additional fretwire is placed at the correct scale length position.

[epluribus36]

Oh, I see, Fazool, thanks. Odd concept, but it makes sense. It's almost like an extra fret, it seems like if you could sneak a tiny finger between the nut and "zero" fret, you could make a "zero" chord.

[s2y]

Here's a pic to better visualize it.

[sigma0015s]

[QUOTE=Pheof;4239631]
I don't know if I can "articulate", but I can explain: 1) it doesn't follow tradition.
/QUOTE]

It does here in Europe, the Zero fret has a long history here.

[devellis]

Originally Posted by epluribus36

It's almost like an extra fret, it seems like if you could sneak a tiny finger between the nut and "zero" fret, you could make a "zero" chord.

The difference is that the strings only touch the other frets when you push them (the strings) down. They all rest on the zero fret all the time, just like they would on the nut of a guitar without a zero fret.

[Luke W]

Originally Posted by Malcolm Kindnes

As already mentioned Fylde guitars have a zero fret, and any I have played sounded great. Duck Baker plays one, and I'd say he knows a good guitar! I've no idea why it is not more popular.

Yep. Theres also an explanation on his website about why he uses them.

http://www.fyldeguitars.com/blog/zero_frets.html

I've had a zero fret Martin for 11 years now (000-18 Martin Carthy bought new). It was the only run of zero fret guitars Martin ever made and probably ever will make. It's an excellent guitar but I feel the zero fret really has very little to do with that.

[redir]

I like them for all the reasons mentioned and I don't like them also for all the reasons mentioned. My Selmer has a zero fret as is the tradition. When you make a nut for a zero fret guitar it's not really all that much easier then for a normal guitar. Not really... just a bit more fussing to get the heights right but most luthiers and repair folks with experience can get that fit pretty quickly.

On acoustic guitars I like to give a little more height on the 5th and 6th string tapering on down to the first two strings which will be at fret height. The reason why is because a lot of players really like to bang on that open E and A and also if they do open slack tunings then there is a bit more vibration room.

For that same reason if I use a zero fret I install the fret after the frets have been dressed and finished and then that gives it just a bit more meat on top of the rest of the frets.

Zero frets have as mentioned been given a bad wrap as cheap guitars.

[Adam Meachem]

I have owned a Parker P8-E for over 8 years now, it has a definite distinguished sound due - in part - to the zero fret, which basically keeps the sound created more consistent across the fretboard. It's the only guitar I own with a zero fret, and I love all my other guitars also, but it is a piece in my collection that has always gotten attention from onlookers. I personally have no scruples with zero frets, and am quite indifferent. It all comes down to the individual instrument, zero fret or not, if it plays and sounds good, that's all that really matters.

[Pheof]

[QUOTE=sigma0015s;4239830]

Originally Posted by Pheof

I don't know if I can "articulate", but I can explain: 1) it doesn't follow tradition.
/QUOTE]

It does here in Europe, the Zero fret has a long history here.

Here's exactly where this debate is headed:



I'm not buying a guitar with a zero fret.

[Otterhound]

Originally Posted by Adam Meachem

I have owned a Parker P8-E for over 8 years now, it has a definite distinguished sound due - in part - to the zero fret, which basically keeps the sound created more consistent across the fretboard. It's the only guitar I own with a zero fret, and I love all my other guitars also, but it is a piece in my collection that has always gotten attention from onlookers. I personally have no scruples with zero frets, and am quite indifferent. It all comes down to the individual instrument, zero fret or not, if it plays and sounds good, that's all that really matters.

Welcome !
Talk about stepping right into it with a first post .
Well played .

[tdq]

My first guitar had a zero fret. Not quite a cheap 60s, but close - a cheap early 70 Suzuki. I thought for a long time that this was normal. This was prior internet and we didn't even have TV where we lived, so my exposure to other guitars was limited. I loved that guitar, and still think a zero fret seems like a good idea. I've been thinking of trying the zero glide on my current acoustic.

Django Reindhardt seemed to like them. He was a decent enough player. Paul McCartney's Hofner bass had a zero fret. George Harrison and Chet Atkins often played zero fretted Gretsches. SOURCE: The internet.

[Wade Hampton]

Epluribus asked:

Originally Posted by epluribus36

Okay, I've gotta once again show my extreme ignorance. What's a zero fret guitar?

The picture of the guitar toward the beginning of this thread clearly has frets.

Then after Fazool explained it to him, he wrote:

Originally Posted by epluribus36

Oh, I see, Fazool, thanks. Odd concept, but it makes sense. It's almost like an extra fret, it seems like if you could sneak a tiny finger between the nut and "zero" fret, you could make a "zero" chord.

Since you're in the Ozarks, Epluribus, you might have seen a few Arkansas-made McSpadden mountain dulcimers floating around. They're also made with zero frets.

In the case of the McSpadden dulcimers having them, it's almost certainly done for production reasons: with zero frets, the action and intonation on their dulcimers can be set by relatively unskilled workers who don't have to get paid a large hourly wage.

As I mentioned in my first post in this thread, on mountain dulcimers the use of a zero fret has a negative impact on the tone. I've had many dulcimer students over the years, both in my hometown of Kansas City, Missouri and in the other cities I've lived in since. McSpadden dulcimers are one of the most common brands of dulcimers made, so many of my students had them.

And they're perfectly functional instruments, if a little overbuilt. But they had two major drawbacks, the first being the zero fret imparting a nasal tone and the second being the Grover Sta-Tite metal friction pegs, which start out working pretty well but gradually become sloppier and sloppier until the only way to get them to hold a pitch is to loosen them with a screwdriver, get the string more or less to pitch, then re-tighten the clutch screw.

These work fine with nylon ukelele strings, which is what they were designed for, but with steel strings on a dulcimer they're essentially worthless after extended use.

These are not to be confused with the Grover Sta-Tite open gear guitar tuners.

Grover Sta-Tite metal friction pegs



Grover Sta-Tite guitar tuners

So those students of mine who were serious about playing their dulcimers often opted to get the metal friction tuners replaced with geared guitar tuners and the zero fret replaced by a nut slotted into where the zero fret used to be.

On dulcimers, it's a major improvement. But not so on guitars.


Wade Hampton Miller

[RustyZombie]

I have a Parker P6E, which has a zero fret. After I got that guitar, I don't understand why zero frets aren't considered a spec requirement by fingerstylists. I think Chet Atkins had similar attitude regarding them as well.