A stupid incident - Page 5

Rob Bourassa · #61 09-10-2009, 05:30 PM

Buc McMaster gives great advice.

I would buy the better guitar, even if it cost more. If I couldn't tell the difference, I would get the cheaper of course, but I have never been without a preference after a good test run.

One is always the winner.

mmapags · #62 09-10-2009, 06:08 PM

Q33, in the example you gave, I would characterize you as a bottom feeder in that instance. You don't give me enough info to determine if your approach is ethical in my view. There is nothing wrong with being a bottom feeder as long as you accept that most business owners usually don't want you as a customer. The car business is an exception because of the whole convoluted nature of thier production/ employment/ must keep creating and selling inventory model. And we've seen over the last year, thier business model as it exists is not self sustaining.
However, even when I'm purchasing cars, it's easy to do the market research and determine what thier costs are. There are several sites on the internet that'll give you that. I've gotten that, factored in the factory incentive rebate they get if they hit thier sales target, put on a reasonable margin that I would be willing to pay. I would hope a dealer would find it acceptable enough to value me as a customer and give me great service. Then I'd start with the dealer I most wanted to buy from for my own reasons, be it reputation, closeness, ease of dealing with them, and give them first crack. If they wouldn't accept my offer I'd move to the next. I appreciate being able to make a reasonable profit in my business and so I'm ok with the other guy making one too. Rarely, if ever, am I looking to buy something at the lowest possible price. As I've alluded to before, for me, price is only one factor in the value equation.

I agree with Glenwillow and Wade's perspecives wholeheartedly!

JCW308 · #63 09-10-2009, 06:14 PM

I totally agree with Wade here. Buy the guitar from Store A to make things right, then go visit the guy at the roadshow, too. You won't regret it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

The owner of Store A was perfectly justified in his response. When the owner of Store B demanded to see Store A's price on paper before he'd match it, that should have told you right there that it was a better idea to go with Store A.

You alienated the better guy. And you're not a "victim" here. You were trying to play two stores off against each other and got caught at it.

I think you should apologize to the store owner of Store A and buy the guitar from him. And then go visit again when the Taylor Roadshow arrives.

It's not the end of the world.

Wade Hampton Miller

Q33 · #64 09-10-2009, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmapags

Q33, in the example you gave, I would characterize you as a bottom feeder in that instance. You don't give me enough info to determine if your approach is ethical in my view. There is nothing wrong with being a bottom feeder as long as you accept that most business owners usually don't want you as a customer.

Hehe, I guess we just have different strategies. I fully understand that businesses probably don't want people like me. Since they are a for profit establishment, they want people they take advantage of, people who don't do their homework, or people who are too scared to negotiate. I'm not saying that you or any others in this thread are getting taken advantage of, but a person who is willing to overpay is their ideal customer. Since that's definitely not me, they probably don't like me. And yet they still do business with me, so I can only assume there is some profit for them. If there wasn't they obviously wouldn't agree to the sale.

As for the car example, I did what you did and found out how much it cost to produce the car, added in their fees and added in an acceptable (by my standards at least) profit and offered it to the dealer. They told me that no dealer would accept that offer. So I had to go negotiate in a different way. Meh, in the end, I was happy, and the dealership had a sale. Again, I can only assume both parties were happy, otherwise it would not have occurred.

And I never said money was the only consideration. I have bought all of my guitars (3 of them) from mom and pop stores because I want to support them and I want to try it before buying. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to try and make them go down as low as possible in price. And I definitely won't feel guilty about it, as it appears others in this thread would want me to. To me, not trying is just silly and is just giving away money. If they agree to my prices, I guess they're happy too...

[Edit] Oh, and I looked up the exact definition of a bottomfeeder (an opportunist, as in politics or business; dictionary.com), and I dont consider what I did a bottomfeeder action. Bottomfeeder implies that I took advantage of someone else's misfortune, or someone got hurt as a consequence of me benefiting. I don't believe this is the case. I got a product, the company got a sale. How did anyone lose?

stuartb · #65 09-10-2009, 06:42 PM

I don't think an appology is warranted. Store owner A took the request for a price verification personally. Always a mistake in business. He had other choices. He could have discussed his approach to business, fair prices, and building relationships in greater detail. He could have explained why he doesn't put the quote on paper - and how as a result, his clients return time and time again - and wish the prospective buyer well in his store choice.

It's easy to get confused from time to time and make an incorrect decision. But honesty and discussion will reopen the door. An appology is unnecessary. There was no ill intent and business is business. If the buyer returns, should he wish, he can speak honesty about what he has learned, and see where it goes. If the seller continues to make him feel ill at ease, he's a poor businessman and does not deserve the sale.

Stuart

mud4feet · #66 09-10-2009, 06:52 PM

[QUOTE=Glennwillow;1954691].......For myself and my own business decisions, I tend to move away from customers who buy only on price. For a business owner, there is very little if any profit in that market approach......./QUOTE]

I believe that would be the "WalMart" and "McDonalds" approach - profits from sheer volume. And I wouldn't buy a guitar from either one of them!

Sordello · #67 09-10-2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou777

I agree with those saying to go with store A. The sales rep. was fair and honest with his info and his bid. I have worked in retail for ten years mostly pro photography. During that time I have been forced to work for stores like store B and from what you have written it sounds like they are the game players.
I strongly disagree with those that think get what is best for you anyway you can. In this economy I feel that we need to support the straight shooters. Even if it means paying a small percentage more. I don't know why it has become a sin to allow a business to make a profit.

Agree. And it is no sin, IMO, for a business to make a profit, and the best profit they can in a free market.
What I find odd with many responses in this thread is why, all of a sudden, it is a sin for the customer to do the same - to shop around and to openly negotiate for the best deal. You can be sure, business to business, these stores are doing the same thing to get the best price from suppliers. Evidently, the sense is that the customer has to come in to the store with zipped mouth and just unload wallet contents because he got service with a smile.

RonS · #68 09-10-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Smith

However, your story sounds to me like price fixing, and it sounds more than a little illegal. All I took from it is that an unethical customer and two unethical sales people cheated each other into a deal that nobody was happy with.

It looks like you really don't have a clue what price fixing is.
I did nothing illegal and no one was cheated.
Unethical - get real.

Do you really think my competitor filled that order?
If you do you have a lot to learn about running a profitable business.

I bump into my competitor every so often, usually at a trade show. The first time we met after the incident he bought me a drink and we had a good laugh.

Sordello · #69 09-10-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonS

It looks like you really don't have a clue what price fixing is.
I did nothing illegal and no one was cheated.
Unethical - get real.

Do you really think my competitor filled that order?
If you do you have a lot to learn about running a profitable business.

I bump into my competitor every so often, usually at a trade show. The first time we met after the incident he bought me a drink and we had a good laugh.

Well it was a humourous story Ron! But were you a little worried doing up a piece of paper that committed you to a "ridiculous" price? I mean, could the guy have bought a second guitar from you at that price you promised? Or maybe pass the paper on to a friend?...

NevadaPic · #70 09-10-2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sordello

Agree. And it is no sin, IMO, for a business to make a profit, and the best profit they can in a free market.
What I find odd with many responses in this thread is why, all of a sudden, it is a sin for the customer to do the same - to shop around and to openly negotiate for the best deal. You can be sure, business to business, these stores are doing the same thing to get the best price from suppliers. Evidently, the sense is that the customer has to come in to the store with zipped mouth and just unload wallet contents because he got service with a smile.

The bottom line... The duty of the vendor to get the highest price, the duty of the customer to get the lowest price.

RonS · #71 09-10-2009, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sordello

You can be sure, business to business, these stores are doing the same thing to get the best price from suppliers.

Of course this happens. But there are more important things than being the lowest priced supplier.

Let me give you an example.
I know I can count on one of my main suppliers. If I call him in the afternoon and say "I need this on my floor tomorrow morning", I know he will deliver. I know this is costing my supplier more to provide this service so I have no problem if his price is higher. My top customers also understands all this when they say to me "I need this on my floor by ___" .

Did you ever hear of the 80/20 rule?

80% of your headaches come from 20% of your customers.
I have no problem losing that 20%. Most of them are bottom feeders looking for the lowest price and often take up more of your time than they are worth.

80% of your profits come from 20% of your customers.
By not wasting my time dealing the bottom feeders, I have more time for my profitable customers.

RonS · #72 09-10-2009, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sordello

Well it was a humourous story Ron! But were you a little worried doing up a piece of paper that committed you to a "ridiculous" price? I mean, could the guy have bought a second guitar from you at that price you promised? Or maybe pass the paper on to a friend?...

I don't sell guitars.

Was I worried? No.

Also, quotes are not transferable.

TBman · #73 09-10-2009, 08:34 PM

Which guitar in which store sounds better? The heck with the price difference, get the guitar that speaks to you. Forget about "hurting" Store A's feelings. If you dropped dead the day after buying the guitar, do you think your family would get full price back on the guitar? No, the stores couldn't care less about you personally (generally, I'm sure there are exceptions), so don't sweat it over them.

Aaron Smith · #74 09-10-2009, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonS

It looks like you really don't have a clue what price fixing is.
I did nothing illegal and no one was cheated.
Unethical - get real.

Do you really think my competitor filled that order?
If you do you have a lot to learn about running a profitable business.

I bump into my competitor every so often, usually at a trade show. The first time we met after the incident he bought me a drink and we had a good laugh.

I'm no lawyer and I'm going to guess that you're not either so we'll just leave that for others on the message board to decide. I guess I'm just a guy who runs a $100m division of a publicly traded company. What do I know?
With your winning personal skills, I can't imagine why the customer would try to hardball you on price.

Smurf42 · #75 09-10-2009, 10:55 PM

Hmm...interesting thread folks.......business ethnics, name calling, and rude sales people....and then folks wonder why no one walks into their stores anymore.....

I guess I am a "bottom feeder" that likes to keep hold of as much of my hard earned money as I can....

And to the OP, no apology for a rude salesman, even if you did "waste his time" doing the same thing he would do for most items he was looking to buy...

And all of this is IMHO.....