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I did throw out some ideas. I don't expect any particular responses, but I do expect debate. Your response was to lecture me, implicitly suggesting that you somehow hold a higher moral ground. You did make some valid points, and I agree with some of your arguments. It is wrong to copy a CD and give it to someone else. But lighten up on the preaching, eh?
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Safe as Milk Last edited by Eracer; 02-24-2007 at 07:35 PM. |
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1) I'm not that all good. ( but despite that there is alot of singing and clapping and tapping and smiling at these things) 2) If there is no money involved then I thought there would be no issues with copyrights, especially considering the venue. If there is not an exemption for such a volunteer situation, perhaps there should be. In the meantime, if I am in violation of some law, without an easy way to give the appropriate artist compensation, I think that continuing to bring encouragement into these care facilities is a "lesser evil". If I stopped doing this because I couldn't find a way to obey the letter of some copyright provision I would be commiting a greater crime.
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A Strummer "Let's lute the city", said the minstrels. Oftentimes the only result I get from a thought experiment is a messed up lab. Last edited by astrummer; 02-25-2007 at 06:41 AM. |
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#34
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The point is: You can't stop casual copyright infringement. Not today, and not tomorrow. The facts that matter (for the purposes of this discussion) are: The advent of digital media has made the traditional model of highly controlled vertical distribution of music obsolete. People who hold on to the archaic notion that more laws and more enforcement will solve any vexing legal problem are naive. The "drug war", abstinence-only sex education policies, censorship, and the war on casual copyright infringement are all doomed to failure for one very easily understood reason. The vast majority of people in the world engage in behavior that is called illegal or immoral by someone. You can't sue everyone. You can't put everyone in jail. You can't make me (and millions of other generally responsible citizens) feel guilty (or be guilty) for spending $30,000 for CD's and copying a dozen of them for friends. Get over it. Get creative and lobby the music industry instead to come up with reasonable policies and rules. Acknowledge the reality of the situation and stop gnashing your teeth and ranting about how ordinary citizens are thieves because they don't count every one of your ducats. Most people (myself included) would gladly participate in any distribution system that will provide easy access to high quality music for a reasonable fee. I never minded paying ridiculously high prices for good CD's. Why should I mind paying a subscription fee (or a reasonable download fee) for high-quality media that can be easily played on any of my entertainment electronics? The industry should relax a little and recognize the inevitable truth: It is obsolete, in its current form. Like Bob said - "The times they are a'changin'"
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Safe as Milk |
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This thread began as a discussion about performance royalties not mechanical royalties, and weather ASCAP and BMI should go after the little guy for playing cover songs that are registered with those agencys. I think they should...but only if the material is logged so that the right people get paid.
Personally, I think DJ's should be paying a large percentage of thier income in royalties and be forced to play original versions, not copies, and get permission for any remixes performed publically. Then again, I don't think much of DJ's. Another area on the mechanical side of things I have issue with is the performer who sells his/her versions of cover songs on gigs, thinking it's ok not to pay Harry Fox cause they are only selling a few hundred units. |
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Having said all that, let me note that this thread has drifted far from where it started -- although JohnZ brought it back -- which is ASCAP/BMI/SESAC and the music venue.This is the way the system works, and on the face of it, I've got no problem. Someone writes a song, and they expect to -- and should -- be paid for the use of it, whether it's on a CD or in a live performance. After all, whenever that song is played, it's generating income for SOMEone, and it's only fair that the writer get his share. MY problem with the system is that, as has already been noted, it doesn't really get the money into the hands of the people who should get it. If I play a Norman Blake tune in a club that has paid the licensing fees, I guarantee you that Norman won't see a penny of the fee. However, the guy who wrote some schlock for the "BackSync Boys" will collect something simply because his stuff gets airplay and Norman's doesn't. THAT'S where the system is broken. Don Smith |
#38
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Since we're making the leap from the live performance royalty thing to the mechanical royalty/electronic transfer royalty things, this commentary from Joel Mabus may be pertinent. He sees some parallels.
http://www.joelmabus.com/napster_v_folkster.htm |
#39
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( Okay --tell me where to send 20% of the money I get from these----20% of zero is zero)
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A Strummer "Let's lute the city", said the minstrels. Oftentimes the only result I get from a thought experiment is a messed up lab. Last edited by astrummer; 02-25-2007 at 01:28 PM. |
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By the way, I play two retirement/assisted living centers with a friend each month, and we've had this discussion ourselves. Don Smith |
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It may be free music to you but it's money in the bank to the nursing home. If they aren't paying a royaly then simply play songs in the public domain....there are hundreds of good sing alongs.
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Once again, if someone gives me an easy and relatively inexpensive way to render service in this manner and comply with all the rules great, otherwise the greater crime would be to stop. And I believe the places where I play are non-profits. Where does it stop?Can I lead a sing along at a camp out for the Boy Scouts without breaking the law? Can I sing Christmas songs at a home for the developmentally disabled without breaking the law? ( And without limiting myself to songs that are more than 100 years old ) Can I lead singing at a home Bible study without breaking the law?
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A Strummer "Let's lute the city", said the minstrels. Oftentimes the only result I get from a thought experiment is a messed up lab. Last edited by astrummer; 02-25-2007 at 08:42 PM. |
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As a practical matter, no one has ever been sued or charged for copyright infringement when the venue was a Boy Scout camp, a home for the disabled or a home study for religion. And they never will be. |
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I would like to think you are right. But there is no telling how far some ( not all ) lawyers will go, sometimes to make a buck, sometimes just to prove a point.
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A Strummer "Let's lute the city", said the minstrels. Oftentimes the only result I get from a thought experiment is a messed up lab. |
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My wife works full time for GSUSA (Girl Scouts) and we've run across this many times. From the GSUSA website: Q: Is there a Web site with Girl Scout songs that I can use without permission? A: No. Before using any Girl Scout songs, you should check to determine their copyright status. If a song is copyrighted, you cannot use it without permission. Q: Can I request a listing of songs, such as graces or camp or action songs? A: No, such a listing is not available. If you want to use songs in a certain category, then you must be specific about the title of each one. Q: Am I allowed to use only the words (not the music) of copyrighted songs without permission? A: No, copyright laws cover both the words and music of a song. Permission must be granted. |