Do guitars need 'breaking in'?

[Jaden]

For acoustic guitars, I’ve honed in on new Martins in shop and compare notes with others browsing who are familiar with the current Standard Series examples on the racks. I’m a firm believer that a guitar can “close up” and sound thin and brittle if it’s left on a wall when temperature and humidity fluctuates too much in a 24hr period. These guitars benefit from stable climate and playing in. Just my sense of it.

[colins]

Based on my experience I am in the “yes they can open up in the early days” school. I have two custom guitars that I picked up from the builders within days of them first being strung and to my ears and those of my playing buddies they both opened up over the first few weeks of playing.

I also have a Tonerite (recommended to me by a builder). From my experience with actually using one, it has improved the sound of a couple of my guitars and not had any effect on others – understandable given the varying degrees of individual guitars having opened up already and also the individual characteristics of the guitars.

Originally Posted by RalphH

I saw an ad for one of those once! Why you wouldn't just play the thing is beyond me - I mean the guitar must ring and make a hell of a racket all the time it's plugged in.

Playing in is more fun, and the Tonerite is faster. But it should not be an either/or thing, use both if you can . Also, using the Tonerite is very easy to use and they make virtually no noise while they are in use.

[RalphH]

Originally Posted by Edgar Poe

O.K. Let's take this to the next level.

List precisely what you think is happening when a Guitar opens up.
I don't mean, well it sounds brighter.
What specifically do you think happens to the wood, how exactly does that change happen.
Does that same change reverse if not played, if it doesn't change, why not ?
Think for example if you over humidify your guitar by mistake, all kinds of changes can happen. How is it that the opened up guitar seems to hold that pattern even when the guitar is subjected to say a move from Tennessee's high humidity, to Arizona. How does that same guitar all of a sudden seem to adapt over night.
Using that same scenario, how do you explain two exact same guitars adjusting themselves to those varied conditions.

How can two of the same instruments both appear to improve dramatically over time, even though subjected to opposite conditions. Which would assume that both would have to be exposed to conditions regulated according to area the guitar lives in. Just by questions asked here about conditions, I would confidently say that 50% or more of all new guitars never get any special treatment regardless of where the owner lives.

Just too many variables.

JMHO

Ed

That certainly cuts to the chase, and that is the fundamental question here.

I don't believe it's climatic; personally I suspect that the vibration of being played breaks down some of the stiffness in the glue joints through microscopic cracking - specifically the glue between braces and top - allowing it to resonate more freely across a wider spectrum, in much the same way as lacquer may checker over time as stress is applied to it from heating and cooling, but it doesn't lose structural integrity and fall off. (though I'm thinking on a genuine microscope scale with the glue, not anything you could see with your eyes, even if you could see inside the joints).

[LeftyKev]

I think personally guitars do indeed 'open up' but that depends on a lot of things ie, how much it is played and the situation ie. temperatures etc.

[Mike Mooney]

Originally Posted by RalphH

Lol, nah, I couldn't find the boots and hat to go with it here in the UK so I bought a custom shop hummingbird instead and it's everything I could hope for.

I'm happily basking in that "I'll never need to buy another guitar" feeling. You know.. the one that wears off almost as fast as your wife can buy shoes

Me: "Oooh, guitar shop!"
Her: "You've got enough guitars"
Me: "You can never have enough guitars"
Her: "Of course you can. You can only play one guitar at a time"
Me: "Well you can only wear one pair of shoes at a time, but that doesn't stop you buying them"
Her: <glare>

[RalphH]

That line of reasoning is all well and good until she comes home with a £4000 pair of shoes

[rstaight]

I think they do open up. How quickly depends on the instrument and how often they are played. I also think since wood is organic this is a process that never really ends. It is much more subtle later on.

Gibson mandolins are known to be questionable when new. But once you have a year on them of regular playing you will never sell it.

[Kh1967]

Personally, I do think they "change" with play time, environmental factors, etc.

I don't buy any guitar hoping that I will love it after I play it for awhile. When I hear what I like from the beginning, I will take a chance.

Additionally, I believe one of the reasons many players like vintage instruments is that they have been "played in."

But, like anything....no two guitars are the same, and they do not all respond in kind.

[JKA]

Originally Posted by RalphH

I've bought a couple of guitars in the last couple of weeks, and I swear that both have sounded MUCH better after a couple of days of being played.

Do they loosen up, break-in and open up tonally over a short period of time? (I know woods improve over the years, but that's not what I'm talking about here).

It's also quite possible I'm subconsciously adjusting my right-hand technique to get the most out of them as I'm getting used to the guitars, but I could swear both have really improved tonally with a bit of playing in.

Just curious

No. You just get more used to playing it.

[cmac]

There are a whole range of changes that can affect a guitar's tone over different timespans:

In the scale of minutes, a lot of the energy that you put into an acoustic guitar turns into heat and that warmth can change how the wood behaves. It certainly changes how it smells.

In the scale of days, the guitar can adapt to humidity changes and new strings can lose their initial zing. Also your perception of how your guitar sounds and feels can change from one day to the next.

In the scale of years, the vibration of playing will gradually change the wood in the guitar, making it slightly more flexible at a microscopic level as wood fibres change, as well as the glue and finish.


At least that's my theory. The only thing I have evidence for is the smell that I get from the guitar once it warms up a little. The rest is just stuff that seems common sense to me.

[RalphH]

I have noticed that this Gibson, alone of all the guitars I've owned, seems to need warming up. It's also the only one with hide glue, which is very temperature sensitive. I may be adding 2 + 2 and getting 22. I may still be getting used to a 4-day-old guitar.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Edgar Poe

O.K. Let's take this to the next level.

List precisely what you think is happening when a Guitar opens up.
I don't mean, well it sounds brighter.
What specifically do you think happens to the wood, how exactly does that change happen.

Ed

Originally Posted by RalphH

That certainly cuts to the chase, and that is the fundamental question here.

I don't believe it's climatic; personally I suspect that the vibration of being played breaks down some of the stiffness in the glue joints through microscopic cracking - specifically the glue between braces and top - allowing it to resonate more freely across a wider spectrum, in much the same way as lacquer may checker over time as stress is applied to it from heating and cooling, but it doesn't lose structural integrity and fall off. (though I'm thinking on a genuine microscope scale with the glue, not anything you could see with your eyes, even if you could see inside the joints).

So, here's what I think happens.

When stuff vibrates - like glue and wood - it repeatedly expands and contracts. That expansion and contraction sets up minuscule electrical micro-charges - I mean really minuscule - that are sent out into space - piezo-electric type stuff. Those tiny micro charges are being picked up by alien life forms in space and the aliens are responding by sending back a signal. That alien signal changes how the guitar sounds, the guitar being a receiver for those signals.

Now, I can't prove any of that, but it sounds plausible to me, as does heavier objects falling faster than lighter ones.



To address the OP's question, you perceive some change and ask whether others have had a similar experience. The short answer is yes, others have.

I appreciate the inquiring minds that want to know what is happening, what is causing this perceived change. In the absence of hard data, people conjecture. No harm in that as long as people don't go away thinking that the unconfirmed conjecture has any basis in fact.

[RalphH]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

I appreciate the inquiring minds that want to know what is happening, what is causing this perceived change. In the absence of hard data, people conjecture. No harm in that as long as people don't go away thinking that the unconfirmed conjecture has any basis in fact.

I thought the whole point of the internet was that it turned unconfirmed conjecture into hard facts by some form of group/collective mind power?

On a serious note, while most of us on here are armchair lawyers, rocket scientists, and guitar experts, there are some real luthiers around here too, so you never know who will actually add some real facts into the conversation. In the meantime, chewing the cud and sharing some good ol' conjecture is a nice way to pass the time

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by RalphH

I thought the whole point of the internet was that it turned unconfirmed conjecture into hard facts by some form of group/collective mind power?

I think you might be right.

On a serious note, while most of us on here are armchair lawyers, rocket scientists, and guitar experts, there are some real luthiers around here too, so you never know who will actually add some real facts into the conversation.

Hopefully, some real luthiers will come along to add some real facts to the conversation.

[4-string]

Just got a new guitar today, I expect it to open up nicely in not too long. At least that has been my experience in the past.