acoustic isolation pad material for DIY

[pjd3]

It looks to be that the most absorbent material at mids and highs is what would suit the solution I"m looking for. If it blocks but doesn't absorb, wouldn't that mean it would reflect? And that wouldn't be too good inside a small enclosure. So, I would imaging that the most absorbent material that won't create big reflections is what will serve this the best.

Just a big improvement will be good enough - I really don't expect anything approaching an enormous level of isolation. Every little bit will help - as long as it doesn't create new issues that weren't there in the first place.

This is good, obviously lots to learn and know about acoustic treatment in many situations.

Phil

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by pjd3

Thank you all for offering ideas and giving good suggestions and link resources., I will be certain to look at all of those.

To be more specific, this is primarily for recording an acoustic guitar only, perhaps a vocal occasionally so, I'm not in need of broadband absorbtion, just some mids and highs.

Also, I'm not trying to treat a room, I'm looking for something very small like a medium size bucket to line with some decent acoustic absorbent material to place various microphones into. That way, I would be a few away from the front of the opening of the lined bucket, and the bucket would be helping to just block rear, lateral and vertical reflections in the room. I don't expect an an-echoic level isolation, just a formidable reduction in the harsh slappy echos going on in all the 14' x 11' hard walled bedrooms in the house.

I'm aware that there are many searchable threads on the subject of room or portable sound isolation but wanted to see if my situation had resonated with folks who have already tried to address a similar thing. I guess I'm trying for something like those vocal isolation solutions just with vertical isolation as well - a good old bucket with good material lining it seemed like a perfect approach and something feasible for DIY home recording.

Thanks everyone! Great direction here.

First understanding that IMO ("I'm not in need of broadband absorbtion, just some mids and highs." ) is a mistaken belief.
There is no way to actually isolate a microphone from low mid and low end mud created by sound bouncing off untreated walls, which can in fact because of multiple reflections still effect the the front area of the mic.
Simply attempting to attenuate the mid's and highs coming from behind the mic , will do little about the most significant source of presence robbing mud from the low mid's and low end That's just the physics of sound wave propagation.

That said and if I am understanding your post ? I am guessing you might be interested in something like this
I have never used one, but it looks like it could at least help with some of the first reflected sound coming from behind the mic.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...le-vocal-booth

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by KevWind

That said and if I am understanding your post ? I am guessing you might be interested in something like this
I have never used on but it looks like it could at least help with some of the more direct sound coming from behind the mic.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...le-vocal-booth

I own an sE Electronics RF Space. Like most things, it helps a little but it's not a substitute for room treatment.

[pjd3]

Hi and thanks again for stopping by.

I guess you could say I am trying for something like the reflection filter approach, just much more rogue and something that would address vertical reflections as well as back and sides - not looking for perfection, just some relief from the hard slap reflections that are apparent

I may be mistaken in my belief in mid/high absorption vs broad band, its just that for many years, over and over I've heard the "professional" companies speak about their 2" material addressing mid/high frequencies but then the necessity to add in 4" material to capture the much lower end of the sonic spectrum. Sure, they may have been trying to pull a big one on us and yeah, I wouldn't know for certain if it has been a big fib along, no reason to disbelieve them.

So, just trying to identify an affordable (but not bad and cheap) sheet of material that can line a trapezoid barrel or bucket and cut down some stark reflections in my nasty bedroom while I record some acoustic guitar on my bed with the mics positioned into the lined barrel/bucket and not be the best but just make a difference in minimizing those nasty reflections. I'm certainly not trying to reach recording studio room acoustics. I can't afford that.

Thank you,
Phil

[MikeBmusic]

Someone released something like a couple of years ago - looked like a big eyeball. Lined with foam. I'm guessing they are out of business now.

You are still mistaking the problem that the reflections you are trying to block all come direct from your guitar to the 'foam bucket' - as others have already said, the sound waves from your guitar bounce all over the room, and can eventually head straight for the front of the mic.

Two gobos made with rockwool set up in a V in font of you will do far more than any foam device you construct. And you can use them elsewhere, or store them in a closet when not in use.

[pjd3]

Mike thanks for that advice and I'm sure you are correct that what you describe will work better than my temporary idea to improve the situation I'm in now. Probably anyone can improve their situation from where they are right now if they do a little more or spend a little more. I'm not trying to re-write my story for the best solution I can achieve. My original post was inquiring about materials and what someone may have found notably effective for the situation I described. Being as that my family is getting ready to pack up and move soon, and that my recordings are just for club owners to refer to and friends to enjoy, I decided to keep my situation very small. I'm not looking for better than what I'm describing, I'm just looking for a material that can go inside a big old trapezoid shaped bucket and help calm things down, even if it is a 30% reduction in room reflections. I'm OK if a few slide in from the front, if I can improve reflections from every direction that isn't the front. When we get settled and there is a "Music room" of sorts, I will be excited to bring in panels, diffusers, reflectors, absorbers, bass traps and make the room a nice place to record. For now, I have to suffer with the very small area I have (which is a big bed with all my recording equipment set up on it - yup, literally that is what I have just right now) - I wouldn't recommend that scenario for serious room treatment and serious recordings! (but there is still just enough room on the bed for a bucket lined with decent absorbing material).

Thanks and best,
Phil

[alohachris]

pjd3,

Reading your 'know-it-all' flavored posts here, ostensibly asking for help, it seems that none of our 'in-good-faith' generous AGF guys here can really help you at all.

All you've demonstrated is constant 'stick-to-my-foam' responses and more about what YOU DON'T KNOW RE: room treatment, pjd3.

Some here tried to break the news to you gently, I will not. Stop being so officious!

But here are a few things I'll list - for the others who may be considering why room treatment is necessary for their recordings:

- You NEED Room Treatment or recording is a waste of time & money. It's actually more important than the gear at first,

- Foam doesn't control early room reflections & is a waste of money. It's a consumer product,

- A minimum of 4" thickness has been proven as the baseline for controlling those early reflections,

- You need room treatment to maximize your gear (any level) & achieve consistency in your recordings,

- A lack of room treatment is the reason why the majority of youtube acoustic home recordings are almost unlistenable,

- A lack of room treatment is the primary reason why many newbie recordings shared at AGF lack consistency, have clarity problems & cause so much frustration for them,

- Discussing room treatment is not nearly as sexy as discussing gear such as mics, but is absolutely necessary to fully understand its function,

- Most newbies consider room treatment to be their last concern ("in the future, when I have my "music room") when it should be first on their list - even if they're only using a Zoom recorder & sharing their recordings with their dog (Ha!),

- Achieving a full spectrum of balanced & separated frequencies - EVEN FOR A SIMPLE ACOUSTIC GUITAR RECORDING - is impossible to do consistently without room treatment.

- The best material for acoustic treatment is OC 703. That's what every professional recording studio everywhere uses. It is commonly available to us through acoustic material suppliers only - like acoustimac that Barry suggested above for you,

- Roxul or rockwool is the next best material to use for treatment.

- Foam, pillows, bedding or drapes are NOT adequate room treatment, even for acoustic guitar recordings.

Those are just a few reasons why adequate room treatment is absolutely necessary for recording anything with a microphone. I hope those can help others looking into Room Treatment, who haven't already seemingly made up their minds. FOAM?! Sheesh!

And to the OP, here are a couple links from Fran Guidry for you about how to easily make a couple, proper DIY, PORTABLE broadband absorbers to start. They'll make a dramatic difference for you, I'm sure. Give 'em a try. Read the first chapter of Ethan Winer's acoustic bible that runamuck suggested above & then it's time to make a few of these as needed:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/

Good Luck!
alohachris

[jim1960]

alohachris, I'm pretty sure everything you just said is going to bounce off him like first reflections off an untreated wall.

[alohachris]

Aloha Jim 1960,

That's the Perfect Analogy, Jim! Ha-Ha-Ha!!!

We listen. We read. We learn. We emulate. Then we play with the wires - all using something as unrealiable as our ears - and trying to have others "experience" what we hear. Almost impossible!

Then verterans like us, playing with wires for decades, try to pass it all on, to de-mystify all this stuff into something understable & accessible.

Some aren't read to listen or learn. I smell "MUD!" I can feel the bounce!

Mahalo for the laugh, Jim!

alohachris

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by jim1960

I own an sE Electronics RF Space. Like most things, it helps a little but it's not a substitute for room treatment.

No I wouldn't think it would be .... It just seemed that the OP was not interested in the known more effective solutions mentioned, like of a couple of portable ( 703 or Roxul) 4 " thick Gobos, and was being insistent on some kind of around the mic only item.
I am not an actual acoustical engineer, so am only guessing, but I doubt some jury rigged "big old trapezoid shaped bucket" is going to be any more effective than the SE Products, and I am also guessing neither will reach the imagined 30% desired reduction mentioned.
But what do I know, I simply purchased some 4" and 6" thick --- 2 ft X 4 ft - GIK "acoustically engineered 703 " panels, and called it a day

[jim1960]

I spent 30 years as a high school teacher and something I'm sure I told to more than a hundred kids over those decades was that you need to be wise enough to recognize good advice when it's given. Not every kid needed that advice but some surely did.

The OP came here with a specific solution in mind. There is no scientific evidence the solution he envisioned would solve his problem but he had an idea and all that was missing was the inexpensive thin flexible mystery material that will efficiently absorb mids and high (and at the same time ignoring the most prevalent problem in home studios... low end rumble). Might as well be hunting unicorns because if such a material existed, there wouldn't be fiberglass and rockwool panels installed in studios all over the world.

All we can do is share what we have learned after being at this for a while. There's always an initial reluctance towards room treatment. I know in my case I resisted it for years because there was always something sexier to buy.
Room treatment or a new microphone? Microphone
Room treatment or a new preamp? Preamp
Room treatment or new headphones? Headphones

Everything is sexier than room treatment.

But eventually it starts to sink in.
What will make my projects turn out better, room treatment or a new microphone? Room treatment
What will make my projects turn out better, room treatment or a new preamp? Room treatment
What will make my projects turn out better, room treatment or new headphones? Room treatment

Because at some point we become wise enough to recognize good advice.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Because at some point we become wise enough to recognize good advice.

Yes the good news eventually it did happen
The bad news is now I keep forgetting what it was

[MikeBmusic]

I resisted the 'room treatment' solution for a few years. It's so much fun (not) recording vocals under a duvet (quilt) 'umbrella'! And the sound was exactly what you'd expect ' boxy. Until I finally built some traps. I recorded in my largest room (living room), facing across the longest dimension with that same duvet hanging on the wall behind me. Better than nothing, but not much.

Here's an interesting video - the first half deals with speaker construction, but the 2nd half is an interesting test of various 'absorbing' materials. i wish he's also done it with 703 or 705.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

Here's an interesting video - the first half deals with speaker construction, but the 2nd half is an interesting test of various 'absorbing' materials. i wish he's also done it with 703 or 705.

I'd have liked to have seen that also but I did start to laugh when adding the foam to the Roxul made the Roxul perform worse. It was like smearing poo on a filet mignon ...just absolute crap.

[pjd3]

This has been a very interesting and sometimes annoying thread.

Its amazing how a request for experience on a simple, temporary non critical attempt to improve some room flutter has brought out such a wide spectrum of responses to how and to what extent an environment should be treated. One fellow here seemed to be tuned in that my situation was of low criticality and very small and temporary.

I ended up purchasing some foam commonly used for lining the inside of speaker cabinets to control reflections, and lined a small weaved basket with the foam. The results were notably cleaner recordings of my acoustic guitar. Is it perfect? Are you kidding me? I'll never have that. But is it something to make my little SoundCloud acoustic song collection be a little nicer to listen to? I'd say a good healthy Yes on that. The inside of that darn basket is so dead that when you stick your ear in it you feel a strange pressure on that side of your head, as if half of you walked into and anechoic chamber (which can be a startling place to walk into).

So I just place a mic as deep into the basket as possible, position the basket as close (up higher and facing down into me/guitar/mattress) but as carefully positioned as I can to achieve best balance of guitar that the mic will be hearing, maybe add a little splash of room or reverb on the way in then process in Reaper after recording. And it is much less of a fight now to get the best sound I can squeak from it. I'd love to treat the room (bedroom) but, we will be moving very soon locally, then out to Colorado in a few years. When the time comes to treat a room this thread will be a tremendous resource. Obviously, Most of all of you valued your recordings deeply enough to do alot about it - and I welcome the time when I can do the same.

Thank you all for trying to set me straight and again, I welcome the day I can have the situation to treat a room the way it should be!

Best,
Phil - the little foam headed basket case.