What would a virus-safe jam session look like?

[Birdbrain]

That's what I've been asking myself these days. Before this mess, I was settled into a cozy routine of weekly house jam sessions with a bunch of geezer- rockers, and periodic ensemble classes at Denver's Swallow Hill Music. That's Denver's folk music institution, the second-largest folk society in the nation. I can't imagine how they will reopen, their stuffy practice rooms in old churches, packed full of Boomer pickers! I also hope very much that they can someday, because I play better when I play socially.

One case Washington state study gives me the chills: "Even though people were aware of the virus and took steps to minimize transfer; e.g. they avoided the usual handshakes and hugs hello, people also brought their own music to avoid sharing, and socially distanced themselves during practice. A single asymptomatic carrier infected most of the people in attendance. The choir sang for 2 1/2 hours, inside an enclosed church which was roughly the size of a volleyball court.

"Singing, to a greater degree than talking, aerosolizes respiratory droplets extraordinarily well. Deep-breathing while singing facilitated those respiratory droplets getting deep into the lungs. Two and half hours of exposure ensured that people were exposed to enough virus over a long enough period of time for infection to take place. Over a period of 4 days, 45 of the 60 choir members developed symptoms, 2 died. The youngest infected was 31, but they averaged 67 years old. "

Whew! My question is, what are ya'll's ideas about best practices for safe playing, and especially singing, in a small group? My first thought is to take it all outdoors, but would that be sufficient? Thoughts?

UPDATE: The Seattle Times reported more details today. "The Skagit singers sat 6 to 10 inches apart in different configurations during the 2½-hour rehearsal at a church in Mount Vernon, about 60 miles north of Seattle, according to a report published by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention...Choir members had no physical contact, although some snacked on cookies and oranges or helped stack chairs, they told investigators. The virus could have spread when exhaled droplets landed on those items.

Another theory? A fine mist of virus particles emitted during singing could have contributed, the report suggests. Some people emit more particles than others and such emissions can happen with loud talking or, possibly, singing."

[Deliberate1]

Attachment 37570

Fear not the dreadnought.
I read about that church choir. Utterly tragic. One of the jam groups I play in has discussed getting together outside. It is on the coast of Maine, literally feet from the shore, where there is typically wind. Much as I would love to get back to the normalcy and joy of playing, I just can not convince myself the risk is worth it. Maybe with a mask? Even with that, kind of sucks the joy out of the experience when you are distracted by the prospects of contracting a potentially lethal respiratory condition.

David

[Mandobart]

With requisite apologies to those on AGF who are both guitar players/luthiers and healthcare workers - asking musicians about healthcare practices makes about as much sense as asking an epidemiologist about how to play or fix your guitar.

That said, it depends on your and your family's health history, risk tolerance, etc. At 56 I'm one of the youngest people in the 3 acoustic music organizations I belong to. Lots of people in these organizations have multiple, compound risk factors and pre-existing conditions. Some will probably not return to our jams until a vaccine is available.

Some will never be back; they've died from the pandemic.

[Birdbrain]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

Attachment 37570

Fear not the dreadnought.

David

Right now, I dread those who fear not.

[UncleJesse]

Originally Posted by Birdbrain

Right now, I dread those who fear not.

Exactly. Entirely way too many people thinking they won't get it because they haven't contracted it or known anyone personally who has contracted it yet. But I live in a rural area and people seem to think it won't come here. It will, it will just be much later.

[Blueser100]

I would do a jam via Zoom or Facebook Live.

I would not gather with people in a room, even 20 feet apart, where people are talking or singing (hence, sending microscopic aerosol into the enclosed space). Maybe you heard (or didn't) about the church group who gathered and sang. And many contracted COVID-19.

[PatrickMadsen]

deleted; couldn't upload photo

[guitar12]

Originally Posted by Blueser100

I would do a jam via Zoom or Facebook Live.

That would make most sense to me.

Rob

[pjmacd]

Originally Posted by guitar12

That would make most sense to me.

Rob

That's what our folk music club has been doing since mid-March. We meet via Zoom. Of course, you can't jam or play together because of the latency issue, but it can become sort of like an open mic. Each player gets the "stage" for a song while others are muted. It's just good for the soul to see and hear others play music.

[UncleJesse]

Originally Posted by pjmacd

That's what our folk music club has been doing since mid-March. We meet via Zoom. Of course, you can't jam or play together because of the latency issue, but it can become sort of like an open mic. Each player gets the "stage" for a song while others are muted. It's just good for the soul to see and hear others play music.

It’s also what we’ve been doing in our group. This week I experimented for the first time with a condenser mic into an audio interface instead of the built in mics. I still need to tweak it but all said it sounded better.

[Rosewood99]

[RickRS]

Originally Posted by UncleJesse

Exactly. Entirely way too many people thinking they won't get it because they haven't contracted it or known anyone personally who has contracted it yet. But I live in a rural area and people seem to think it won't come here. It will, it will just be much later.

I understand the concerns voiced here by our group. I struggle with this, too. I've just got into playing with others after years playing by myself. Just before the COVID-19 in the United States got started found a 80+ neighbor who plays harmonica. He was enjoying himself so much playing with me.

I would love to restart those sessions. He was actually somewhat unconcerned about the possibility of infection.
But his wife is so worried. All it takes is just a couple of hours in the same room with one person infected, but not presenting symptoms, and everybody could be infected. All it took for rural Albany Georgia to become one of the worst hotspot outside NYC was one person at a funeral.

And one of the most rural areas of the United States, the Navajo Nation, are now dealing with the worst per capita infections of the United States. Rural, isolation, it's no protection from the virus.

[dwasifar]

Originally Posted by Birdbrain

Right now, I dread those who fear not.

My wife works retail. Her store is open, with mask and distancing rules. She gets pandemic deniers daily. They ignore the rules. When she insists, they say, "oh, you're one of those."

Yes, one of those silly people who wants to not catch a fatal disease. I don't know what she must be thinking.

[Doug MacPherson]

I was visiting with 3 people outdoors the other day. All 3 of us were 6 feet apart. Outdoors. I had a mask on, THEY DID NOT. Then, one of them started hacking and coughing. really bad... The person tried to turn the other way, but the breeze was blowing slightly from that person to me. 6 feet away. I probably got semi-sprayed. That did it for me.

Note: I'm from south Louisiana. In 2005 Hurricane Katrina killed around 1800 people in New Orleans alone. Approximately that many are dying in this country of Covid every day. I'm older and have health conditions. I'm taking it serious. I don't take much weight with politicians or TV "news" pundits, I go to the CDC website for accurate information. But maybe I'm wrong. YMMV.

CDC
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...revention.html

Note that the CDC says "Do not gather in groups"

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by Blueser100

I would do a jam via Zoom or Facebook Live.

'Live Jam' often indicates people playing together at the same time, hence the 'jam' part of it. Zoom and Facebook Live don't support this. Just too much lag so it never syncs up right.

Many of us have been doing an AGF Open Mic over on Facebook for about a month now. It's a little clunky but we've made it work. This weekend we're transitioning over to Zoom as we did a mini open mic last night on that and it was much better, much closer to the real thing. Should be fun. Click the link below to join us.