Tonedexter before or after LR Baggs Venue

[willymartin]

Thanks in advance for any advice. For pedals, at this point, I've only used the LR Baggs Venue DI.. I've added the Tonedexter pedal. I've read that the Baggs should go before the TD. Is this correct? If so, can someone explain why? Also adding Strymon Deco and Flint..should they go into the send/return of the TD?
Again, thanks in advance.

[MrErikJ]

What pickup are you using and what do you need the Venue for? The TD is a preamp and IR so I’m not sure how the Venue is beneficial. Some people like to have an unaffected signal to send the front of house as well, and if thats the case, I’d the run the Venue first and put your other effects in the loop of the TD.

[willymartin]

Originally Posted by MrErikJ

What pickup are you using and what do you need the Venue for? The TD is a preamp and IR so I’m not sure how the Venue is beneficial. Some people like to have an unaffected signal to send the front of house as well, and if thats the case, I’d the run the Venue first and put your other effects in the loop of the TD.

Pickup is the LR baggs element, (Gibson j15) Venue is for the 5 band eq (two sweepable mid controls)...and I'm used to it.

[shufflebeat]

You've got a whole lot of duplication going on here, which is fine if it works for you. I think you'll eventually choose but that's up to you.

If it were me I'd put the Venue in the FX loop of the TD (for now).

[Petty1818]

I don’t really have an answer but I have started to realize that combining too many preamps in the chain actually can have a negative impact on the overall tone. I tried to make the Session DI work with my Fishman Spectrum DI, Tonedexter and Grace Design Felix and every time I liked the tone more with just one pedal in the chain. I do wish that one day, a Tonedexter would be released that’s literally just an effect. Maybe a smaller format with a level knob, wavemap selector and that’s it. I realize I went a bit off topic there!

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by willymartin

Pickup is the LR baggs element, (Gibson j15) Venue is for the 5 band eq (two sweepable mid controls)...and I'm used to it.

I get that. I’m inclined to agree with Petty that too many preamps is a problem. The Element has its own onboard preamp and going into two more preamps before heading to a mixer, is a bit much. The TD is, essentially, a hyper sophisticated EQ that can get into frequencies a standard EQ cannot. If you’re EQing at the Venue and the TD, there’s gonna be some duplication and excessive elimination of freqs you may need.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by willymartin

Pickup is the LR baggs element, (Gibson j15) Venue is for the 5 band eq (two sweepable mid controls)...and I'm used to it.

Keep in mind that with ToneDexter, you essentially have a 1000-band "EQ" that is using computation to set it up optimally. So the need for multiple bands of EQ from the Venue should be far less. I basically run flat with TD. If the wavemap is right, you shouldn't need any serious EQ. Presumably you're also going into a mixer/PA, which also has EQ should you need some.

But I'd say there are two ways to think about this; 1) Assume TD is your main preamp, and the Venue is your "EQ Effect". In that case, put the Venue in TD's effects loop. Or 2) assume the Venue is your main preamp, and TD is a "make my guitar sound better effect" and put TD in the Venue's effects loop. Either way, you're likely to struggle with gain staging issues - running two preamps is generally asking for trouble.

[willymartin]

Thanks for the insight thus far..

Like I said...ive only ever used the Venue and find the 2 sweepable mid controls infinitely important at every single gig. So people are using the 3 band eq of the TD and calling it good?

My situation: For my band I use the Touchmix 8 but, since Covid, I'm either solo or grab my fiddle buddy..often just going straight in an S1 pro or QSC k12.2.. So, basically, I'm using the TD for the IR's and the Venue for eq.. Is this unusual? If so, what are others doing?

EDIT...i think I was typing at the same time as the last 2 commenters...i think they answered my question.. Thanks!

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by willymartin

Thanks for the insight thus far..

Like I said...ive only ever used the Venue and find the 2 sweepable mid controls infinitely important at every single gig. So people are using the 3 band eq of the TD and calling it good?

For me, yes. It depends on what you're doing with all that EQ. If you're playing loud and fighting feedback or trying to adjust for bad room acoustics - something very hard for the performer to do by himself - better for a sound person out front to deal with, then you may still need that EQ. If the reason you think you need all that variable EQ is just trying to dial in a good sound, then that's what ToneDexter does for you, and does it in a far more complex way than you can ever do by hand with 2 sweepable EQ bands. I've never used all that much EQ on gigs - I try to pick gear that sounds good to start with, rather than trying to fix it with EQ. ToneDexter has made that easier, I no longer have to try (and fail...) to compensate for the deficiencies of the pickup with EQ. Instead, maybe I just decide I'd like a tad more bass or a bit more or less treble, and done... My setup is slightly different, but the bottom line is the same, I have pretty basic EQ available, and rely on ToneDexter to get me 99% of the way there as far as the pickup sound.

[willymartin]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

For me, yes. It depends on what you're doing with all that EQ. If you're playing loud and fighting feedback or trying to adjust for bad room acoustics - something very hard for the performer to do by himself - better for a sound person out front to deal with, then you may still need that EQ. If the reason you think you need all that variable EQ is just trying to dial in a good sound, then that's what ToneDexter does for you, and does it in a far more complex way than you can ever do by hand with 2 sweepable EQ bands. I've never used all that much EQ on gigs - I try to pick gear that sounds good to start with, rather than trying to fix it with EQ. ToneDexter has made that easier, I no longer have to try (and fail...) to compensate for the deficiencies of the pickup with EQ. Instead, maybe I just decide I'd like a tad more bass or a bit more or less treble, and done... My setup is slightly different, but the bottom line is the same, I have pretty basic EQ available, and rely on ToneDexter to get me 99% of the way there as far as the pickup sound.

Thanks Doug, i really appreciate it! I'm brand new to the Tonedexter..what sent me down this rabbit hole was the first gig I used it at I used only the TD and left the Venue at home. The "sound guy" wasn't happy and blamed the TD...(I found out later I had an issue with the Element and have since had it repaired)...Either way..the experience had me thinking i should put the Venue back in the chain; however, I'll trust the process and see how this Saturday's gig goes with a functional pick up.

As far as the Strymon Flint and the Deco...do I put these through the fx loop of the TD? Or TD, Deco, Flint, mixer?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by willymartin

Thanks Doug, i really appreciate it! I'm brand new to the Tonedexter..what sent me down this rabbit hole was the first gig I used it at I used only the TD and left the Venue at home. The "sound guy" wasn't happy and blamed the TD...(I found out later I had an issue with the Element and have since had it repaired)...Either way..the experience had me thinking i should put the Venue back in the chain; however, I'll trust the process and see how this Saturday's gig goes with a functional pick up.

As far as the Strymon Flint and the Deco...do I put these through the fx loop of the TD? Or TD, Deco, Flint, mixer?

I'd put effects in the effects loop/insert.

There is a lot of variability with ToneDexter in how you have it trained, and like any new gear you may have to learn what works for you. If you need EQ, you need EQ, but I'd maybe look at an EQ device rather than trying to chain 2 preamps.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Keep in mind that with ToneDexter, you essentially have a 1000-band "EQ" that is using computation to set it up optimally. So the need for multiple bands of EQ from the Venue should be far less. I basically run flat with TD. If the wavemap is right, you shouldn't need any serious EQ. Presumably you're also going into a mixer/PA, which also has EQ should you need some.

But I'd say there are two ways to think about this; 1) Assume TD is your main preamp, and the Venue is your "EQ Effect". In that case, put the Venue in TD's effects loop. Or 2) assume the Venue is your main preamp, and TD is a "make my guitar sound better effect" and put TD in the Venue's effects loop. Either way, you're likely to struggle with gain staging issues - running two preamps is generally asking for trouble.

I am finding this as well. With a good wavemap, I am hardly touching the on-board eq on the Tonedexter. I think right now I have the slightest amount of treble turned down but the bass is flat. I am actually using the newest version of the Fishman Matrix as my main pickup and the tone control on it makes it very easy to slightly adjust the wavemap/pickup tone if needed. It’s kind of a sweetener.